New Gods?

[CDRaider]

I acutally thought about it when I met my boyfriend. He's Baha'i and I remember being amazed at how new it was. But the more I thought about it, religion is new all the time and the fact that people have trouble believeing in the unknown makes most if not all religions slow to start or at least slow to be accepted.

 

[CelticRavenwolf]

Does any one here venerate gods/goddesses from fantasy, or that they have imagined themselves, or that perhaps are a fusion of two or more gods/goddesses?

Or does anyone know of people who do?

What do you think of this concept - of worshipping newly "created" gods?

Personally, i don't see anything wrong in it as, IMHO, all ancient gods had a similar beginning, they've just been established longer.

To address what others have brought up - the appearance of deities - I figure that since no one of us has ever SEEN the gods, they could appear however you please. Some people believe that to look upon the face of God is to die, and so see God as simply bright light. Others see an old man with a white beard. or a ferocious warrior goddess. An anthropomorphic elephant. Anything. Whatever floats your boat, really. I'm sure the gods appear to individuals in whatever form that individual feels comfortable with. By made up deities, I'm addressing the made up beliefs, morals and system of worship that are associated with making up a deity, not their appearance.

There are two reasons why I disagree with making up deities or following those that were made up by others for entertainment (a la fantasy books and games).

One is hollow emptiness of it. When I renounced christianity and was "shopping" for a new faith, I thought to create my own deity. I gave it a name, made up rituals and convinced myself of it's reality. But it felt as empty as it was. There was no history, no tradition, no kinship with another person - just me and my made-up goddess, who condoned what I thought was right. I think that essentially, when you make up a deity and follow your own rules and beliefs, it's a thinly veiled way of worshipping yourself. You control your guilt and morality, you control your spiritual rewards and fulfillment. There is no group consensus, no justification, no penalties. So really, when you make up your own deity to worship, you are left with nothing that makes religion a religion. Sure, you maybe still have a sense of spirituality - agnostics have spirituality - but I don't think it's anything more than fooling yourself into a false sense of spiritual comfort. Now, one could argue that is the case when you follow ANY spiritual path, but I digress.

I think that choosing to believe in a deity from a popular book or game is almost sad. I don't mean that to be offensive, but the people I have known who do this (and I've met more of them than I'd like to admit) basically do so because they are so enamoured with the fantasy realm as a whole that to believe in the deities from it is their ultimate expression of converting that realm into their reality. Mainstream religions don't offer them that escape from reality, and I think that in a weird way the fantasy realm still connects them to other people, likely thanks to the wonders of the internet.

The second reason I don't like it is also personal. To me, history plays a huge role in religion and beliefs. I don't get how ANYONE can claim to have a belief in something, christianity, buddhism, whatever, but not understand the hows and whys of it. So someone who INVENTS their hows and whys is positively mystifying. Part of the reason I embrace Celtic mythology is because it IS such an old religion, and because I have ancestral ties to it. I realize that isn't the flavour for everyone, but it's very important for me.

While it is true that all gods, mythologies and religions had to be created at some point in time, I still think that there is something to be said about the longevity of traditional deities. People believe in them as much for the social interaction, empathy, unity and mutual understanding as they do for the spiritual comfort. To know that there is collective and historical belief in something gives it some semblance of credibility (and I won't argue that people have believed in many things that later proved incorrect - totally not the point). So again, to believe in your own deity is to reject the social aspect of it. If someone is fine with that, then to each their own.

So long story short - it's not 'wrong', persay (so long as it doesn't hurt anyone), but I certainly don't agree with it and I think that it is self-delusional to the individual.

 

[BFD_Zayl]

well, the gods have come to me in my dreams, the way I have seen them generally fit with the old descriptions.

 

[KSojourner]

There are two reasons why I disagree with making up deities or following those that were made up by others for entertainment (a la fantasy books and games).

One is hollow emptiness of it.

I think that essentially, when you make up a deity and follow your own rules and beliefs, it's a thinly veiled way of worshipping yourself.

I think that choosing to believe in a deity from a popular book or game is almost sad.

Mainstream religions don't offer them that escape from reality, and I think that in a weird way the fantasy realm still connects them to other people, likely thanks to the wonders of the internet.

I don't get how ANYONE can claim to have a belief in something, christianity, buddhism, whatever, but not understand the hows and whys of it. So someone who INVENTS their hows and whys is positively mystifying.

So long story short - it's not 'wrong', persay (so long as it doesn't hurt anyone), but I certainly don't agree with it and I think that it is self-delusional to the individual.

Oh, there is so much that I agree with in your post, esp. the "thinly veiled way of worshipping yourself" part. The above statements are some of the other ones.

Great post.

 

[lilithu]

There are two reasons why I disagree with making up deities ...

One is hollow emptiness of it. When I renounced christianity and was "shopping" for a new faith, I thought to create my own deity. I gave it a name, made up rituals and convinced myself of it's reality. But it felt as empty as it was. There was no history, no tradition, no kinship with another person - just me and my made-up goddess, who condoned what I thought was right. I think that essentially, when you make up a deity and follow your own rules and beliefs, it's a thinly veiled way of worshipping yourself. You control your guilt and morality, you control your spiritual rewards and fulfillment. There is no group consensus, no justification, no penalties. So really, when you make up your own deity to worship, you are left with nothing that makes religion a religion. Sure, you maybe still have a sense of spirituality - agnostics have spirituality - but I don't think it's anything more than fooling yourself into a false sense of spiritual comfort.

:yes:

While it is true that all gods, mythologies and religions had to be created at some point in time, I still think that there is something to be said about the longevity of traditional deities. People believe in them as much for the social interaction, empathy, unity and mutual understanding as they do for the spiritual comfort. To know that there is collective and historical belief in something gives it some semblance of credibility (and I won't argue that people have believed in many things that later proved incorrect - totally not the point). So again, to believe in your own deity is to reject the social aspect of it. If someone is fine with that, then to each their own.

Also agree here, and I would point out that while "all gods, mythologies and religions had to be created," they generally were not created by one person at one single time. A god like Zeus evolved as people with the concept of Zeus came into contact with people with a similar concept and they recognized a shared truth. What they mutually recognized was retained. In that way, as you say, the social aspect of religion comes into play. Over time, some ideas fell away because they were no longer relevant, and other ideas arose. But the ideas that remain relevant from age to age continue. Again, history/tradition/society/community help to guide what is important. As opposed to just an individual making up what is important to him or herself.

Great post Ravenwolf!

 

[CelticRavenwolf]

...I would point out that while "all gods, mythologies and religions had to be created," they generally were not created by one person at one single time. A god like Zeus evolved as people with the concept of Zeus came into contact with people with a similar concept and they recognized a shared truth. What they mutually recognized was retained. In that way, as you say, the social aspect of religion comes into play. Over time, some ideas fell away because they were no longer relevant, and other ideas arose. But the ideas that remain relevant from age to age continue. Again, history/tradition/society/community help to guide what is important. As opposed to just an individual making up what is important to him or herself.

Great post Ravenwolf!

Thanks! You raise a very valid point yourself about "shared truth" and the inheirent adaptability of religion. Once again, Christianity comes to mind as a prime example. Religious holidays and symbolisms from conquered pagan cultures were assimilated into the prolific faith. It's what made conversion easier for the 'heathens'. Without the religion bending to accomodate some of their more significant traditions, no doubt the conquered cultures would have fought harder for their individuality.

That's starting to get a little off topic, but it does strengthen the point about 'all religions having been created' not really being on the same scale as a single individual.

Well done, Lilithu!

 

[painted wolf]

I love to make up gods and religions for the RPG's that I run for friends and for stories I write.

Does this count?

wa:do

 

[CelticRavenwolf]

It does if you venerate and/or worship them!

 

[Halcyon]

While it is true that all gods, mythologies and religions had to be created at some point in time, I still think that there is something to be said about the longevity of traditional deities. People believe in them as much for the social interaction, empathy, unity and mutual understanding as they do for the spiritual comfort. To know that there is collective and historical belief in something gives it some semblance of credibility (and I won't argue that people have believed in many things that later proved incorrect - totally not the point). So again, to believe in your own deity is to reject the social aspect of it. If someone is fine with that, then to each their own.

So long story short - it's not 'wrong', persay (so long as it doesn't hurt anyone), but I certainly don't agree with it and I think that it is self-delusional to the individual.

Also agree here, and I would point out that while "all gods, mythologies and religions had to be created," they generally were not created by one person at one single time. A god like Zeus evolved as people with the concept of Zeus came into contact with people with a similar concept and they recognized a shared truth. What they mutually recognized was retained. In that way, as you say, the social aspect of religion comes into play. Over time, some ideas fell away because they were no longer relevant, and other ideas arose. But the ideas that remain relevant from age to age continue. Again, history/tradition/society/community help to guide what is important. As opposed to just an individual making up what is important to him or herself.

So, what do you guys think of Islam in this context?

It could be argued that Muhammed forged a new faith single-handedly, if you look at it from a non-Muslim perspective Muhammad did exactly what you are describing.
He invented a new God, with a new mythos, a new set of rules (that just so happened to largely benefit himself) and did it all by himself.
He alone created the Qur'an and defined the image of Allah (from a non-Muslim perspective again), yet now Islam is the second largest world religion.

 

[lilithu]

So, what do you guys think of Islam in this context?

It could be argued that Muhammed forged a new faith single-handedly, if you look at it from a non-Muslim perspective Muhammad did exactly what you are describing.
He invented a new God, with a new mythos, a new set of rules (that just so happened to largely benefit himself) and did it all by himself.
He alone created the Qur'an and defined the image of Allah (from a non-Muslim perspective again), yet now Islam is the second largest world religion.

Especially from a non-Muslim perspective, I would disagree with this assessment. Mohammed did not invent a new God, he linked the strongest god of the local pagan pantheon with the Judeo-Christian God. This was a god that most of the locals already worshipped. All Mohammed had to do was say this is the ONLY God. Pretty much as the Jews did with their God millenia earlier.

Mohammed's mythos is a retelling of the Judeo-Christian tradition, with the same cast of characters from Satan to Adam to Moses to Jesus, but interpreted differently, through the lens of his culture. The Qur'an and the image of Allah all reflect the Judeo-Christian tradition, also filtered thru his culture. The rituals and rules reflect the local customs of the time. There was no creation ex nihilo of a religion here. As a non-believer I'd say that Islam is a perfect example of what we've been talking about.

 

[CelticRavenwolf]

*points up to Lilithu's post*

What she said.

I took a University course on the Religion of Islam, which presents it from a more historical point of view than a religious ones - in other words, we didn't dwell on the religious philosophy so much as the origins and beliefs of the faith. And everything that Lilithu said is right on the mark. Mohammed did not create a God, the God's history, or what came before. Again, as Lilithu said, there is a distinct cultural flavour to Islam, but Mohammed is merely claimed to be another prophet to the same God as the Jews and Christians.

 

[love]

Especially from a non-Muslim perspective, I would disagree with this assessment. Mohammed did not invent a new God, he linked the strongest god of the local pagan pantheon with the Judeo-Christian God. This was a god that most of the locals already worshipped. All Mohammed had to do was say this is the ONLY God. Pretty much as the Jews did with their God millenia earlier.

Mohammed's mythos is a retelling of the Judeo-Christian tradition, with the same cast of characters from Satan to Adam to Moses to Jesus, but interpreted differently, through the lens of his culture. The Qur'an and the image of Allah all reflect the Judeo-Christian tradition, also filtered thru his culture. The rituals and rules reflect the local customs of the time. There was no creation ex nihilo of a religion here. As a non-believer I'd say that Islam is a perfect example of what we've been talking about.

I agree completely that mohammed did not invent a new God. It fit very closely with Judea- Christian beliefs for a short while, but changed to fit the agenda.

 

[kiwimac]

Anoia is one of my favourite Pratchett Goddesses.

In a real sense all pictures of God / Goddess are subjective. They are all, in some sense, humanity writ large. I argue that it is impossible for it to be otherwise given that the ONLY eyes we can see God / the Goddess through are human ones.

 

[kiwimac]

Added to my earlier post.

I wish I could be around on the day that humans first encounter sentient aliens. Perhaps together they and we can form a more accurate picture of 'life, the universe and everything.'

 

[CelticRavenwolf]

I wish I could be around on the day that humans first encounter sentient aliens. Perhaps together they and we can form a more accurate picture of 'life, the universe and everything.'

We already have that answer. 42!