New York Times endorses Harris as ‘the only choice’ for president

[SkepticThinker]

Well Canada has turned into a leftest leaning country like so many others. I'm sure all the high prices are greatly appreciated by the citizenry.

And there's the sound of the point whooshing over your head.

Can you hear it?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I don't believe the Government of the U.S. or any western nation is forcing us to inject chemicals into our bodies. But we can skip the debate as to whether or not it is happening by agreeing that it should not happen.

They did it during the pandemic and they are required for some school districts across the US. Vaccinations are mandatory in some places. People lost their jobs because they would not take the Covid vaccination.

The Government does force you to pay taxes, obey the speed limit and other laws. But those laws are not a violation of bodily autonomy. If they are I am against them

Not what we were talking about. How is forcing a woman to have a child like pointing a gun to their head? Your implication is that they will kill you if you don't have this child.

 

[Pogo]

They did it during the pandemic and they are required for some school districts across the US. Vaccinations are mandatory in some places. People lost their jobs because they would not take the Covid vaccination.

There are lots of cases where vaccinations are mandatory for certain employment positions, both in private enterprise and public positions, this is long settled law and no-one is actually required to get the vaccinations, though continued employment can be predicated on compliance.

Not what we were talking about. How is forcing a woman to have a child like pointing a gun to their head? Your implication is that they will kill you if you don't have this child.

And immediately after your first hyperbolic expression you turn around and object to hyperbole to make a point. LOL

 

[SkepticThinker]

They did it during the pandemic and they are required for some school districts across the US. Vaccinations are mandatory in some places. People lost their jobs because they would not take the Covid vaccination.

No they didn't.

Nobody was forced to do anything. You were asked to get vaccinated. You didn't have to. But if you didn't, there were some consequences to that. Just like with a lot of choices we make in life. It's still a choice though.

Mandatory vaccination to hold a job is not a forcing of anything. Don't like it, go look for another job. You don't have a right to work somewhere and just do whatever you want. Employees have a duty to keep their employees safe - they can't just have everyone spreading disease around during a global pandemic. Similarly, restaurant owners mandate their workers to wash their hands before serving food to people for similar reasons. They can't be poisoning their customers because some employee thinks they have a right to not wash their hands. In the same vein, they can't be exposing their employees and customers to a potentially deadly virus - they wouldn't be in business too long if they did that.

Not what we were talking about. How is forcing a woman to have a child like pointing a gun to their head? Your implication is that they will kill you if you don't have this child.

You're forcing her to carry a fetus to term inside her body against her will.
Some people will die if they don't receive an abortion.
Sounds pretty similar to me.

 

[fantome profane]

They did it during the pandemic and they are required for some school districts across the US. Vaccinations are mandatory in some places. People lost their jobs because they would not take the Covid vaccination.

No one is being forced to take any vaccine. You have a choice. But there are consequences of whatever choice you make. That is true of all things in life.

And was not just during the pandemic, there have always been consequences for a choice not to get vaccinated, in the U.S. this goes all the way back to George Washington.

Not what we were talking about. How is forcing a woman to have a child like pointing a gun to their head? Your implication is that they will kill you if you don't have this child.

Or imprisonment. Trump himself said there must be punishment.

 

[metis]

LOL What kind of a dummy is waiting around for a POTUS endorsement from the likes of not only a large corporation, but also one that makes money from advertising for other large corporations, rather than thinking for themselves?

Why are you assuming they didn't think for themselves? You some sort of mind reader?

 

[metis]

They did it during the pandemic and they are required for some school districts across the US. Vaccinations are mandatory in some places. People lost their jobs because they would not take the Covid vaccination.

Companies and even governmental agencies have a legal and moral right to set up their own regulations for hiring and dismissal. Seems that you want to take that away from them.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

There are lots of cases where vaccinations are mandatory for certain employment positions, both in private enterprise and public positions, this is long settled law and no-one is actually required to get the vaccinations, though continued employment can be predicated on compliance.

And immediately after your first hyperbolic expression you turn around and object to hyperbole to make a point. LOL

What other conclusion do you draw from the gun pointing at your head comment? I am asking since no one will explain what they meant.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No they didn't.

Nobody was forced to do anything. You were asked to get vaccinated. You didn't have to. But if you didn't, there were some consequences to that. Just like with a lot of choices we make in life. It's still a choice though.

Yes, just like abortion.

Mandatory vaccination to hold a job is not a forcing of anything. Don't like it, go look for another job. You don't have a right to work somewhere and just do whatever you want. Employees have a duty to keep their employees safe - they can't just have everyone spreading disease around during a global pandemic. Similarly, restaurant owners mandate their workers to wash their hands before serving food to people for similar reasons. They can't be poisoning their customers because some employee thinks they have a right to not wash their hands. In the same vein, they can't be exposing their employees and customers to a potentially deadly virus - they wouldn't be in business too long if they did that.

Don't want an abortion then don't get pregnant. Women and men have a choice (Most of the time) whether to have sex or not. YOu earlier said you have consequences for your decisions, why is having sex different?

You're forcing her to carry a fetus to term inside her body against her will.
Some people will die if they don't receive an abortion.
Sounds pretty similar to me.

There are exceptions for people that may die.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No one is being forced to take any vaccine. You have a choice. But there are consequences of whatever choice you make. That is true of all things in life.

And was not just during the pandemic, there have always been consequences for a choice not to get vaccinated, in the U.S. this goes all the way back to George Washington.

Why is that different for pregnancies? Women and men most of the time have a choice to have sex, that is a consequence of the act that you must take responsibility for. If I run a read light and hit someone i a crosswalk, that is my responsibility. If I have sex and a pregnancy occurs, that is my responsibility as well.

Or imprisonment. Trump himself said there must be punishment.

I would punish the doctors somehow, not the mothers. This is Trumps stance as well.

"If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb."

Fact check: Does Trump want to punish women who get abortions?

A new ad from President Joe Biden's reelection campaign takes aim at some of his Republican rivals' positions on abortion, highlighting comments by South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and former President Donald Trump.

www.wral.com

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Companies and even governmental agencies have a legal and moral right to set up their own regulations for hiring and dismissal. Seems that you want to take that away from them.

First, we do this all the time. Can you fire a person just because they are black? or a woman? Can you hire someone just because they are white?

Second, Pro Choice people talk about bodily autonomy trumping everything. Why isn't this the case with vaccines?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, just like abortion.

Yes, I can choose to terminate a pregnancy, if I so desire/need/want. It's my body.

This is actually nothing like the vaccine example. Being pregnant isn't a communicable disease that can cause a massive outbreak of disease throughout society.

Don't want an abortion then don't get pregnant.

Don't want an abortion, then don't get one. But don't trample on my rights to my own body.

And ya know, not everyone who gets an abortion actually wants one, right? Sometimes it needs to be done to save one's health or life. For instance, a friend of mine got pregnant and then found out she had cancer. In order to carry on with her cancer treatments and continue living, she had to abort first. She did not want to, but realized her life was at risk. That should be her decision. Not yours. And not the government's. It's her life on the line.

Women and men have a choice (Most of the time) whether to have sex or not. YOu earlier said you have consequences for your decisions, why is having sex different?

There are many options available to couples having sex.

There are exceptions for people that may die.

That's not working out well at all in Texas, where infant and maternal mortality rates are on the rise.

Turns out, you have to wait until you're on your death bed before you can receive proper treatment. That is not acceptable.

Roe v. Wade offered proper protections for women. And it worked well for 50 years.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why is that different for pregnancies? Women and men most of the time have a choice to have sex, that is a consequence of the act that you must take responsibility for. If I run a read light and hit someone i a crosswalk, that is my responsibility. If I have sex and a pregnancy occurs, that is my responsibility as well.

I would punish the doctors somehow, not the mothers. This is Trumps stance as well.

"If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman. The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb."

Fact check: Does Trump want to punish women who get abortions?

A new ad from President Joe Biden's reelection campaign takes aim at some of his Republican rivals' positions on abortion, highlighting comments by South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and former President Donald Trump.

www.wral.com

Your desire to "punish the doctors" for doing their job is the very reason that women are currently dying in Texas.

Look at your word usage here. It's very telling that you view pregnancy as a punishment for a woman's actions. It's even more telling that you'd "punish" doctors for doing their jobs.

 

[metis]

First, we do this all the time. Can you fire a person just because they are black? or a woman? Can you hire someone just because they are white?

Race has nothing to do with vaccines!

Second, Pro Choice people talk about bodily autonomy trumping everything. Why isn't this the case with vaccines?

Again, you miss the point-- I believe intentionally. No wonder you keep endorsing a would-be dictator, namely Donald J. Trump.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Race has nothing to do with vaccines!

I know. But vaccines have to do with bodily autonomy.

Again, you miss the point-- I believe intentionally. No wonder you keep endorsing a would-be dictator, namely Donald J. Trump.

I see you are not engaging my discussion, you just took another opportunity to name call.

 

[metis]

I know. But vaccines have to do with bodily autonomy.

Again, you miss the point by deflecting as I was referring to the law.

I see you are not engaging my discussion, you just took another opportunity to name call.

So, where's my "name call"? Having a bad day?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know. But vaccines have to do with bodily autonomy.

I see you are not engaging my discussion, you just took another opportunity to name call.

Okay, like it or not vaccines work. We know that.

There are jobs that can require that someone get vaccinated to work there. If they do not like that they can always quit. That is not forcing someone to take a vaccine. It is lowering the odds that they will harm others. One does not have the right to put others at risk. At least I cannot find it anywhere in the consitution.

So if you do not want a vaccine do not get one. But do not complain if some of your interactions with others are limited due to that choice.

An extreme example is drinking and driving. Being drunk behind the wheel does not guarantee that you will kill someone. It does greatly increase the chances so government makes it illegal. One can still get drunk and take an uber home, or a taxi, or a bus. One could get one's friends to take one home. But due to the risks to others one cannot drive oneself home. The same logic applies to ordering people to get vaccines to hold some jobs.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Okay, like it or not vaccines work. We know that.

I never said they don't work.

There are jobs that can require that someone get vaccinated to work there. If they do not like that they can always quit. That is not forcing someone to take a vaccine. It is lowering the odds that they will harm others. One does not have the right to put others at risk. At least I cannot find it anywhere in the consitution.

So if you do not want a vaccine do not get one. But do not complain if some of your interactions with others are limited due to that choice.

I tend to agree, but why is that different for abortion? Can an employer say you can't have an abortion to work here?

An extreme example is drinking and driving. Being drunk behind the wheel does not guarantee that you will kill someone. It does greatly increase the chances so government makes it illegal. One can still get drunk and take an uber home, or a taxi, or a bus. One could get one's friends to take one home. But due to the risks to others one cannot drive oneself home. The same logic applies to ordering people to get vaccines to hold some jobs.

Sure, but we are talking about bodily autonomy and abortion. The problem is you want bodily autonomy for the mother who made a decision thar lead to a pregnancy, but not for the human life that made no decision to be created.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I never said they don't work.

I tend to agree, but why is that different for abortion? Can an employer say you can't have an abortion to work here?

Because fetuses and embryos are not "people". At least no one has ever demonstrated that they are. The problem is that the antiabortion people need a rational argument for how and why fetuses and embryos are people, but even then the bodily autonomy issue still exists. Morally if the state enforces a pregnancy on a woman they should also foot the entire bill.

Sure, but we are talking about bodily autonomy and abortion. The problem is you want bodily autonomy for the mother who made a decision thar lead to a pregnancy, but not for the human life that made no decision to be created.

And again, it is not determined to be a "human life". Is it a potential human life? Yes. But that has not been shown to be the case.

 

[Kathryn]

You're forcing her to carry a fetus to term inside her body against her will.
Some people will die if they don't receive an abortion.
Sounds pretty similar to me.

Less than 2 percent of abortions are to save the life of the mother thankfully. Like way less. So at least 98 percent of abortions are NOT to save the life of the mother.