Next Place to Live

[Jake1001]

We are hearing that Australia and New Zealand are the "next place to live". Is this because of more personal freedom ? More opportunity ? Less violence ? Less taxes ? Better health care system ? Other reason(s) ?

If you live there, could you tell us if you like it ? If so, why do you like it ? Do you think we would like it ?

If you live elsewhere, are you thinking of moving there ? Why ?

Since this is the Politics sub-forum, someone will say to move the post unless it is political. So, is Australia and New Zealand liberal or conservative, politically, compared to other countries ?

Can we visit you ?

 

[George-ananda]

@Jake1001 You didn't mention where you are from. Europe, Asia, Africa, North or South America, etc.. This is an inter-continental forum.

I am an well-traveled American and have never been south of the equator. As a youngster I used to stare at the globe and thought people in the southern hemisphere actually had to wear suction-cups on their shoes to keep from falling off the earth. (True story, but I was young). Now with those fears aside I have a very positive impression of Australia and New Zealand and would love to visit. No reason to move there and not know a soul when America has its fine places.

I think they are more liberal in the fashion of Western Europe with pockets of conservatism too.

This might come across as racist to some, but I think the places settled and developed by the British and their systems have evolved to be the most free, stable, prosperous and justice-minded places in the world; Great Britain, America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Western Europe is also in the same line.

 

[Jake1001]

@Jake1001 You didn't mention where you are from. Europe, Asia, Africa, North or South America, etc.. This is an inter-continental forum.

I am an well-traveled American and have never been south of the equator. As a youngster I used to stare at the globe and thought people in the southern hemisphere actually had to wear suction-cups on their shoes to keep from falling off the earth. (True story, but I was young). Now with those fears aside I have a very positive impression of Australia and New Zealand and would love to visit. No reason to move there and not know a soul when America has its fine places.

I think they are more liberal in the fashion of Western Europe with pockets of conservatism too.

This might come across as racist to some, but I think the places settled and developed by the British and their systems have evolved to be the most free, stable, prosperous and justice-minded places in the world; Great Britain, America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Western Europe is also in the same line.

Hello George, I am from the western part of the US.

I am deeply troubled by what I am seeing in Europe and the US. With racism increasing in Europe and the rise of the far right. With Trump in the US, I am wondering if minorities will have to seek new homes in the near future. And I hear that Australia and New Zealand are good places.

 

[George-ananda]

I am deeply troubled by what I am seeing in Europe and the US. With racism increasing in Europe and the rise of the far right.

Australia is following with the same struggles due to immigration of Muslims, etc..

With Trump in the US, I am wondering if minorities will have to seek new homes in the near future. And I hear that Australia and New Zealand are good places.

This sounds like unjustified paranoia to me coming from the left. Trump is not that bad (not that I would vote for him). Trump has talked against 'illegal' immigrants but I haven't heard anything against minority citizens to cause alarm.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

@Jake1001 You didn't mention where you are from. Europe, Asia, Africa, North or South America, etc.. This is an inter-continental forum.

I am an well-traveled American and have never been south of the equator. As a youngster I used to stare at the globe and thought people in the southern hemisphere actually had to wear suction-cups on their shoes to keep from falling off the earth. (True story, but I was young). Now with those fears aside I have a very positive impression of Australia and New Zealand and would love to visit. No reason to move there and not know a soul when America has its fine places.

I think they are more liberal in the fashion of Western Europe with pockets of conservatism too.

This might come across as racist to some, but I think the places settled and developed by the British and their systems have evolved to be the most free, stable, prosperous and justice-minded places in the world; Great Britain, America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Western Europe is also in the same line.

also Singapore, Hong Kong, Kenya, relative to their immediate neighbors at least, not all colonies were successful but I think your observation is pretty unambiguous and rarely acknowledged.

If I had to chose another country Australia and NZ seem pretty promising, I've visited a few Scandinavian countries, they can look pretty good on paper... but not so much up close imho.

Western Europe has the most beautiful cities, sense of romance for me, a great place to live if you are rich, but not so much for opportunity-

Then places like Dubai, Doha - the opposite, great opportunities, beauty, freedom, not so much

not that any of these places would want me either!

 

[Digital_Monk]

I've given a lot of thought over the past few years about where I will live next. I've been here in central Iowa for the last 15 years, and that's the longest I have ever been in one spot, and it is driving me crazy. Not sure where I'd go since I have ideals and wants that aren't compatible with a lot of the rest of the world. Plus, I'm lazy and can't be bothered to learn a new language or customs. I think I'll probably just move further out into the boonies and be a hermit. An Internet-connected hermit.

 

[George-ananda]

also Singapore, Hong Kong, Kenya, relative to their immediate neighbors at least, not all colonies were successful but I think your observation is pretty unambiguous and rarely acknowledged.

Also, India. Those places had a dense pre-existing culture already in place. Not so much with America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. Old world diseases unintentionally decimated the pre-existing populations.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Also, India. Those places had a dense pre-existing culture already in place. Not so much with America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. Old world diseases unintentionally decimated the pre-existing populations.

Yes true, I just finished a very interesting book about Captain Cook by Frank McLynn, covering his whole career, but with some great insights into the first interactions with existing cultures in New Zealand and Polynesia- spoiler alert- didn't end well for Cook!

 

[Jake1001]

Australia is following with the same struggles due to immigration of Muslims, etc..

This sounds like unjustified paranoia to me coming from the left. Trump is not that bad (not that I would vote for him). Trump has talked against 'illegal' immigrants but I haven't heard anything against minority citizens to cause alarm.

I guess you haven't heard his views on Muslims and Chinese.

 

[George-ananda]

I guess you haven't heard his views on Muslims and Chinese.

What are your views on his views on Muslims and Chinese that would cause an American citizen to need to flee the country?

 

[icehorse]

The combined ignorance and arrogance of many 'mericans is driving me nuts. The rise of Trump is just an indicator of this deadly ignorance / arrogance combination. Not sure that NZ or Australia would take us in, but we're thinking about it.

 

[Jake1001]

What are your views on his views on Muslims and Chinese that would cause an American citizen to need to flee the country?

George, I had intended this thread to be about down under. But I guess you want to take a little detour related to Trump. Let's use high quality references, first to show he is a racist:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

If you want to, we can further explore his comments related to Muslims and China. If he gets elected, there will be many thinking about moving down under.

 

[George-ananda]

George, I had intended this thread to be about down under. But I guess you want to take a little detour related to Trump. Let's use high quality references, first to show he is a racist:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

If you want to, we can further explore his comments related to Muslims and China. If he gets elected, there will be many thinking about moving down under.

My initial post #2 was non-political. You got political with Trump and all in post #3. Yes, lets not go there. I am not a Trump supporter but I think the left is going overboard. So lets bury the hatchet and talk about down under. Unfortunately, none of our down-underers have chimed in.

 

[George-ananda]

@Jake1001 One thing I believe is you can not just move there, get a job and live. Just like an Australian can not come to America, get a job and live. The only exception is if you have a particularly 'in demand' profession and a company sponsors you. Having sponsoring close relatives is the other shot.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You rang?

I'm an Aussie, lived in New Zealand for about 18 months at one stage (for work reasons) so I can probably give some sort of educated response on both. Actually, I seem to recall doing that already, but I guess there must have been a similar-ish thread somewhere.
Oh, and the company I work for is Swedish, so I can even provide some Scandanavian opinions on Australia if you like.

Happy to answer any and all questions, obviously with the caveat that's it's all pretty much opinionative.

I can have a crack at the OP questions if you like, although there is a bunch all mixed up in there...lol
But, for comparitive purposes, are you American? And if so, which broad part of America? I'm thinking primarily here about how I'd describe the relative conservatism of our politics, etc.

 

[Papoon]

G'day. Owya goin ?

Bad news I'm afraid. Australia is superficially a free democracy. But the rot has really set in.

The rot really took hold on November 11 1975, when the government of the day - the Labor Party, under PM Gough Whitlam - was sacked by the Queen's representative Sir John Kerr. Officially, the reason was economic mismanagement. In fact (and this is not even a vague thought in most Aussie heads) the real reason was that Whitlam wanted to renegotiate Australia's agreement with the US over a vital part of US military infrastructure, a military intelligence base, Pine Gap. An American CIA operative, Chris Boyce, blew the whistle on this in the 90s, and subsequently spent 15 years in isolation for doing so. The official story re Boyce is that he sold US secrets to the Russians.

As far as I can tell, Australia may as well be the 51st state of the USA at this point.

This situation has worsened considerably since then. After 911, Australia introduced some of the most Draconian laws on Earth. Arrest without charge, without trial, without any form of disclosure whatsoever in fact. We have no idea whether or not these laws have been applied - because it is also illegal to ever mention it to anyone, even family members, upon release.

Australia is not the land of 'the fair go', as it was once called. For example, after the Indonesian attack on East Timor, which our intelligence services knew was imminent and chose to silently allow (causing many intelligence personnel to quit in disgust), Australia annexed much of East Timor's territory illegally to claim rights over oil and natural gas fields in the Timor Sea. This left East Timor with no resources of any value.

Australia's politics are a two party affair, the Liberals (rightwing conservatives traditionally) and the Labor Party (traditionally leftwing). The two parties are now more or less indistinguishable. New rules are being framed which will eradicate small independent parties.

The indigenous people of Australia have been treated like rubbish ever since the British arrived here and seized all territory illegally, using the legal pretext of 'Terra nullius' (nobody's land), a term applying only to uninhabited territory.
"Terra nullius (/ˈtɛrə.nʌˈlaɪəs/, plural terrae nullius) is a Latin expression deriving from Roman law meaning "nobody's land", which is used in international law to describe territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty"

About 150 aboriginal settlements have been shut down recently, on the basis that white people should not have to subsidise 'lifestyle choices'. We treat our colored folk way worse than colored Americans are treated.

I could say more, and will, but that is enough for now.

 

[Papoon]

Re attached file, not sure what happened there. Don't know how to edit it out.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

G'day. Owya goin ?

Bad news I'm afraid. Australia is superficially a free democracy. But the rot has really set in.

The rot really took hold on November 11 1975, when the government of the day - the Labor Party, under PM Gough Whitlam - was sacked by the Queen's representative Sir John Kerr. Officially, the reason was economic mismanagement. In fact (and this is not even a vague thought in most Aussie heads) the real reason was that Whitlam wanted to renegotiate Australia's agreement with the US over a vital part of US military infrastructure, a military intelligence base, Pine Gap. An American CIA operative, Chris Boyce, blew the whistle on this in the 90s, and subsequently spent 15 years in isolation for doing so. The official story re Boyce is that he sold US secrets to the Russians.

As far as I can tell, Australia may as well be the 51st state of the USA at this point.

This situation has worsened considerably since then. After 911, Australia introduced some of the most Draconian laws on Earth. Arrest without charge, without trial, without any form of disclosure whatsoever in fact. We have no idea whether or not these laws have been applied - because it is also illegal to ever mention it to anyone, even family members, upon release.

Australia is not the land of 'the fair go', as it was once called. For example, after the Indonesian attack on East Timor, which our intelligence services knew was imminent and chose to silently allow (causing many intelligence personnel to quit in disgust), Australia annexed much of East Timor's territory illegally to claim rights over oil and natural gas fields in the Timor Sea. This left East Timor with no resources of any value.

Australia's politics are a two party affair, the Liberals (rightwing conservatives traditionally) and the Labor Party (traditionally leftwing). The two parties are now more or less indistinguishable. New rules are being framed which will eradicate small independent parties.

The indigenous people of Australia have been treated like rubbish ever since the British arrived here and seized all territory illegally, using the legal pretext of 'Terra nullius' (nobody's land), a term applying only to uninhabited territory.
"Terra nullius (/ˈtɛrə.nʌˈlaɪəs/, plural terrae nullius) is a Latin expression deriving from Roman law meaning "nobody's land", which is used in international law to describe territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty"

About 150 aboriginal settlements have been shut down recently, on the basis that white people should not have to subsidise 'lifestyle choices'. We treat our colored folk way worse than colored Americans are treated.

I could say more, and will, but that is enough for now.

Whilst this contains some truths, it's hardly a fair representation of Australia. Although I suspect anyone reading along would be able to guess that.

 

[Papoon]

Whilst this contains some truths, it's hardly a fair representation of Australia. Although I suspect anyone reading along would be able to guess that.

Which part is unfair ?

 

[Papoon]

Whilst this contains some truths, it's hardly a fair representation of Australia. Although I suspect anyone reading along would be able to guess that.

I guess you mean that although what I posted is all true, which it is, it does not give credit to the more positive aspects of Australian culture.

I would have thought the same thing some years back. But I am possibly somewhat older than you, and have watched the decline which is now accelerating at a pace...and have also realised that our culture has been in denial about so much for so long. The notion of 'Aussie' is, and to a large extent always has been, a caricature, a cartoon really. Our notion of ourselves was invented in the late 19th and early 20th century by poets like Henry Lawson and Banjo Patterson. The ideals however were mostly a fantasy, which dissolved under the impact of American TV in the 1960s. We don't really have a culture. We have a collection of nationalistic ideals which are really just fabricated nostalgia IMO.