Next Place to Live

[lewisnotmiller]

I guess you mean that although what I posted is all true, which it is, it does not give credit to the more positive aspects of Australian culture.

I would have thought the same thing some years back. But I am possibly somewhat older than you, and have watched the decline which is now accelerating at a pace...and have also realised that our culture has been in denial about so much for so long. The notion of 'Aussie' is, and to a large extent always has been, a caricature, a cartoon really. Our notion of ourselves was invented in the late 19th and early 20th century by poets like Henry Lawson and Banjo Patterson. The ideals however were mostly a fantasy, which dissolved under the impact of American TV in the 1960s. We don't really have a culture. We have a collection of nationalistic ideals which are really just fabricated nostalgia IMO.

I dont know if you are older, but then im also unsure what age has to do with this. I'm 41 for what it's worth. Anyway, I'm not able to respond in detail now but I will.
Cheers.

 

[Papoon]

I dont know if you are older, but then im also unsure what age has to do with this. I'm 41 for what it's worth. Anyway, I'm not able to respond in detail now but I will.
Cheers.

Not referring to age as in pulling rank, but because I have a view of Australia which began prior to the TV era (I was born a year or so before introduction of TV). So I have observed our culture for a long time, and watched the changes. I remember the 'Aussie culture' which folk are nostalgic about (well, not Clancy of the Overflow, or the ANZACs. LOL But I was a kid in the era when pubs were fully tiled, men-only, and closed at 6pm, then literally hosed out) and watched the developments since then.

 

[Papoon]

I can still remember the smell - beer, cigarettes and urine. You could smell it from 50 yards during the '6 o'clock swill'.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Not referring to age as in pulling rank, but because I have a view of Australia which began prior to the TV era (I was born a year or so before introduction of TV). So I have observed our culture for a long time, and watched the changes. I remember the 'Aussie culture' which folk are nostalgic about (well, not Clancy of the Overflow, or the ANZACs. LOL But I was a kid in the era when pubs were fully tiled, men-only, and closed at 6pm, then literally hosed out) and watched the developments since then.

Cool. That actually makes sense. I'll give you a properly thought out response at some point in the next day or so.

 

[Jake1001]

Ok, forget it, I'm not coming !

 

[MARCELLO]

Dutch Antilles. One word.One answer.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Also, India. Those places had a dense pre-existing culture already in place. Not so much with America, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. Old world diseases unintentionally decimated the pre-existing populations.

And sometimes slightly less 'unintentionally'. Also, bullets.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I guess you mean that although what I posted is all true, which it is, it does not give credit to the more positive aspects of Australian culture.

I would have thought the same thing some years back. But I am possibly somewhat older than you, and have watched the decline which is now accelerating at a pace...and have also realised that our culture has been in denial about so much for so long. The notion of 'Aussie' is, and to a large extent always has been, a caricature, a cartoon really. Our notion of ourselves was invented in the late 19th and early 20th century by poets like Henry Lawson and Banjo Patterson. The ideals however were mostly a fantasy, which dissolved under the impact of American TV in the 1960s. We don't really have a culture. We have a collection of nationalistic ideals which are really just fabricated nostalgia IMO.

It's hard to respond directly to your original post and this one, so I'll just give you my general thoughts, and we can take it from there I guess.
Culture is always changing. Anyone who clings to ideas of 'Australian-ness' based on historical perspectives is inevitably going to view change as 'decline', since we are moving increasingly further from our 'roots'. That is, simply, inevitable.

Further, we clearly have a culture. It's not 'throw another shrimp on the barbie', and in truth never was. But the cultural cringe involved in how we presented ourselves to the world in the past didn't always speak of a modern or confident nation. In any case, our true culture has always been more complex and less easy to identify than some jingoistic slogans might suggest.
I work with a large number of people who have come here from overseas, both temporarily and permanently. I work for a Swedish company, so majority are either Scandanavians or Sri Lankans, with a few South Africans thrown in for good measure. It's interesting to get an outsiders perspective on these things, but in general they don't have too much trouble identifying our broad cultural markers, both good and bad.

Globalisation does have a tendency to shrink the world and to cross-pollinate cultural identity. American culture obviously becomes pervasive and influential, that being the case. But it's not the first time overseas cultures have impacted on our local culture. And whilst I can understand your age lends you some additional perspective for things I have only read about, it's pretty clear to me that American culture (on the whole) is not aped in the same mindless way it was when I was a teenager. You have your religion as music...consider the local hip hop scene as an example of something which was originally a poor copy of American culture, but which now has a much more local flavour. It's not exactly a new phenomenon for us to follow overseas trends and rules.

Some of the examples you gave (for example, poor treatment of indigenous) whilst holding accuracy, are also not new. These have existed since European settlement. Not to run away from these at all, but they can't be used as support for a declining culture (whatever that is).

And sentences like 'Australia may as well be the 51st state of the US' or 'Australia has some of the most Draconian laws on earth' are pure hyperbole.

 

[George-ananda]

And sometimes slightly less 'unintentionally'. Also, bullets.

Of course, but back to the main topic. Some people are thinking (not me) that if Trump becomes President Americans will feel the need to leave the country in droves. My point earlier in the thread was that an American can not just pack up and move downunder. get a job, buy a house, etc.. Immigration is restricted into the downunder countries. Without any sponsoring relatives or special job qualifications that are in need, you are very unlikely to be allowed to immigrate. People will be stuck in Trump's racist evil hell (of course, I think people are overreacting). People are like spinning the globe deciding where is the best place to live.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Of course, but back to the main topic. Some people are thinking (not me) that if Trump becomes President Americans will feel the need to leave the country in droves. My point earlier in the thread was that an American can not just pack up and move downunder. get a job, buy a house, etc.. Immigration is restricted into the downunder countries. Without any sponsoring relatives or special job qualifications that are in need, you are very unlikely to be allowed to immigrate. People will be stuck in Trump's racist evil hell (of course, I think people are overreacting). People are like spinning the globe deciding where is the best place to live.

Yep, agreed. I made the point somewhere in this thread...or maybe another, there have been a couple of similar ones.

Basically, anyone can migrate to Australia...as long as they fit very specific criteria. It's not quite the Don's wall, but we have a massive ocean around us filled with sharks, so...yeah...

Basically, you'd need to be a skilled worker in particular industries (http://www.liveinvictoria.vic.gov.a...ion-occupation-list-for-victoria#.Vv6emfmSyy4), a refugee (although we treat them like crap, so best not to go that route) or come with a big briefcase of cash, so you can support yourself forever.

I'm oversimplifying, but your point is completely valid.

 

[Underhill]

I can still remember the smell - beer, cigarettes and urine. You could smell it from 50 yards during the '6 o'clock swill'.

Sounds like heaven. *rolls eyes

 

[Papoon]

And sentences like 'Australia may as well be the 51st state of the US' or 'Australia has some of the most Draconian laws on earth' are pure hyperbole.

Are you actually aware of the laws I referred to ? Most Australians aren't. Check the details. My remarks were not hyperbole at all. Perhaps like most Australians you simply don't know the details of the laws which were passed post-911.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Are you actually aware of the laws I referred to ? Most Australians aren't. Check the details. My remarks were not hyperbole at all. Perhaps like most Australians you simply don't know the details of the laws which were passed post-911.

More than one I've signed petitions against...but I've also lived and worked in quite a few other countries. Fair to say there are laws here I find disagreeable but 'most Draconian on Earth' is complete hyperbole.

Feel free to provide a list of laws though.