Nice Guy Syndrome and Misandry

[Revoltingest]

Anyone else tired of gender-slamming?

Ooo, ooo...I am!

 

[painted wolf]

Anyone else tired of gender-slamming?

Always.

wa:do

 

[Sunstone]

Anyone else tired of gender-slamming?

I'm beginning to think there is no lower bound to the stupidity of it.

 

[dust1n]

Oh, I thought gender-slamming was a euphemism for sex. Buzz kill.

 

[Penumbra]

Anyone else tired of gender-slamming?

I love men!

Especially the cool ones.

 

[Jacksnyte]

So you call yourself a "Nice Guy". You are nice to women, you treat them with respect and try to do your best to impress them with your kindness and general niceness. You believe that you are not like those other guys, you know those guys who aren't "nice", you go out of your way to be the exact opposite!

But yet, women continue to reject you? But how could that be? With you being such a "nice guy" and all who respects women they be glad to be friends or more with you. But that doesn't seem to be the case. So there must be something wrong with them and not you.

So whats wrong with these women? How can they be so disrespectful? Well, they must hate men. Yes! That's the ticket! The reason why women continue to reject is because these women hate men. It has nothing to do with the kind of guy you are, now does it?

Well, maybe it is you? Have you ever thought about it? Maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with you. Maybe instead, you are a misogynist. Yup that could be it! Maybe women reject you because you don't look at us as fellow human being but objects.

I think it really depends on whether the guy claiming to be a nice guy is putting on an act expecting a return on the effort, or if they really are genuinely nice.
I also think that there is an issue here with women often being confused about what they actually want in a man.
Then there is the issue of nice guys with no self-confidence, and how un-attractive that can be to women.
I think all these reasons contribute to the issue at hand.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Guys. I am afraid he might have a point here.

It's a childish game a lot of women play.
I am a nice guy who has no time for such games.
One can be nice and masculine and have self-confidence.

I think there is a lot of game-playing involved in the dating scene these days, and it ruins it for those of us who are genuine.

 

[Penumbra]

I also think that there is an issue here with women often being confused about what they actually want in a man.

I don't think that's a gender-specific problem.

It seems to me that both men and women often value qualities differently at first compared to what they really want, or what really works out best for them.

Many men and women, on the other hand, know exactly what they want.

 

[painted wolf]

I got what I wanted.

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

I got what I wanted.

Was it the wave I offered to you as I passed thru NH last week?
(Tight schedule, so I was driving quickly.)

 

[Kathryn]

I like men, especially my husband, my dad, my sons, and my sons in law.

Got a lot of good men in my life - and a lot of happy women.

 

[painted wolf]

Was it the wave I offered to you as I passed thru NH last week?
(Tight schedule, so I was driving quickly.)

That explains the disturbance in the force....

Next time drive even faster so you have more goofing off time! (because clearly that is how it works)

wa:do

 

[Draka]

I don't think that's a gender-specific problem.

It seems to me that both men and women often value qualities differently at first compared to what they really want, or what really works out best for them.

Many men and women, on the other hand, know exactly what they want.

I wonder why the words "a lady in the street but a freak in the bed" just came to mind?

 

[Me Myself]

I don't think that's a gender-specific problem.

agreed.

 

[dust1n]

Ok, I know I made my joke earlier, but I actually went back and read the entire thread.

I must say, I have to be the luckiest guy in the world. I think I learned pretty early on that the best relationships you can have are not going to be instigated by any party too much, at least for myself. I stopped being concerned with the girls and the guys I knew and who was ******* who. Any relationship that was going to take place was going to end.

I personally don't care about masculinity at all, and granted, if a woman doesn't find me attractive because of it, because I don't fit some mold of what men are suppose to be and how they are suppose to behave in their eyes, then I really don't care. I find shallow women unattractive. Even if they are 'hot' by some standards, and I simply cannot find myself attractive to bad qualities. I never tried to get past this, to **** that person regardless. Situations like that are pretty much a waste of a night. You gain nothing from it, at least nothing that lasts for more than a day. Not to mention, everyone strikes out more than they succeed in this realm. So, if a woman doesn't like me, okay. That's fine. I don't think I could truly like any girl that didn't like me also, and I don't think a girl I didn't like has ever liked me. The issue never gets brought up.

I learned to just back off from trying to control social situations to work out in my favor; they never will. But if one would just shut up and be patient, and actually get to know people, and open up and be honest instead of facading ourselves around each other, one will find who they are compatible with the best, simply by not trying to go after every single option all at once. Have some sensibility. Be open-minded when people talk and be gentle when you respond back to them. I'm not impressed by anything else.

Nearly everything in this thread mentioned, I've found to be hyperbole.

I'm no where near masculine in any traditional sense. I've been with plenty of women. The three serious relationships I was in lasted over a year. I didn't want to control anyone. I didn't want to be controlled. I just wanted good company, nice conversation, an open, exploratory, and engaging sexual experiences, where we could be comfortable enough with each other to express ourselves in what is obviously one of the most emotionally and psychologically delicate situations.

I've been in shorter relationships with friends, and all but 1 were just fine. I didn't have to exploit anyone, or mislead them. I was just being as honest as I could possibly be. I stopped caring about any potentiality for flack from girls. If I like you and its becoming obvious to me that the feelings are mutual, than I will just note my attraction. It doesn't mean I have to do or not do anything. It doesn't mean that if I don't try super hard to chase down that attraction, that I'm a coward or I have somehow failed. I would never want to instigate anything with a girl that she didn't want, and so I never do unless I know for sure, by means of direct, verbal communication, that I'm engaging in exactly what she wants (assuming I'm wanting the same things.) Really, at this age, those short-term relationships were just distractions from the real world, I see now. They were nice, and while they were honest, they honestly didn't offer much. Sex hardly creates memories, and I never worry specifically about some night's performance, because no one is going to top themselves every night.

Just get on with your life and you will find someone based off your experiences with your own life. You would be much more apt to have deep and meaningful times. If you are just concerned about the girls and guys who are constantly in search of their partner, their probably not going to be great because they've made the person they are going after their highest priority. How unattractive... that that's what life amounts to for some people... finding mates.

I like strong, confident girls, who aren't afraid to speak their minds, and who aren't arrogant enough to ever change it. Two of the girls in my life were probably more influential than all of my male best friends.

The girl I was just with (she moved out of town for college, we didn't break up) did not expect me to be anything all the time. When I was more confidant, it was great. When I was tender or subject to bad things, I never felt ashamed or embarrassed to share my feelings.

Yea, I must be one of the luckiest guys in the world, whenever I stopped caring about immediate gratification. Even when I go a year without being with a girl, it just allows me to focus more on myself and be more productive. When I am with a girl, I sometimes lose focus, but I learn a lot about individuals, and in turn, learn a ton about myself. I learn a ton about myself because I'm always willing to listen, and in return, others are willing to listen to me, which allows to really open up. And opening up to people shows you things about yourself you would never have access to otherwise. What could be better, to truly discover yourself and others?

Or I guess we can just keep assuming that all of the opposite gender are the same, and must be treated in some certain way, and never really feel comfortable to be ourselves around them, and never really find out anything about ourselves and others.

 

[dust1n]

And it reminds me of one of Nietzsche's critiques about group and personal identity.

TOO FAR DID I fly into the future: a horror seized upon me.
And when I looked around me, lo! there time was my
sole contemporary.

Then did I fly backwards, homewards—and always faster.
Thus did I come unto you, ye present-day men, and into
the land of culture.

For the first time brought I an eye to see you, and good
desire: verily, with longing in my heart did I come.

But how did it turn out with me? Although so alarmed—
I had yet to laugh! Never did mine eye see anything so
motley-coloured!

I laughed and laughed, while my foot still trembled,
and my heart as well. “Here forsooth, is the home of all
the paintpots,”—said I.

With fifty patches painted on faces and limbs—so sat
ye there to mine astonishment, ye present-day men!
And with fifty mirrors around you, which flattered your
play of colours, and repeated it!

Verily, ye could wear no better masks, ye present-day
men, than your own faces! Who could—recognize you!

Emphasis added.

 

[painted wolf]

Ok, I know I made my joke earlier, but I actually went back and read the entire thread.

I must say, I have to be the luckiest guy in the world. I think I learned pretty early on that the best relationships you can have are not going to be instigated by any party too much, at least for myself. I stopped being concerned with the girls and the guys I knew and who was ******* who. Any relationship that was going to take place was going to end.

I personally don't care about masculinity at all, and granted, if a woman doesn't find me attractive because of it, because I don't fit some mold of what men are suppose to be and how they are suppose to behave in their eyes, then I really don't care. I find shallow women unattractive. Even if they are 'hot' by some standards, and I simply cannot find myself attractive to bad qualities. I never tried to get past this, to **** that person regardless. Situations like that are pretty much a waste of a night. You gain nothing from it, at least nothing that lasts for more than a day. Not to mention, everyone strikes out more than they succeed in this realm. So, if a woman doesn't like me, okay. That's fine. I don't think I could truly like any girl that didn't like me also, and I don't think a girl I didn't like has ever liked me. The issue never gets brought up.

I learned to just back off from trying to control social situations to work out in my favor; they never will. But if one would just shut up and be patient, and actually get to know people, and open up and be honest instead of facading ourselves around each other, one will find who they are compatible with the best, simply by not trying to go after every single option all at once. Have some sensibility. Be open-minded when people talk and be gentle when you respond back to them. I'm not impressed by anything else.

Nearly everything in this thread mentioned, I've found to be hyperbole.

I'm no where near masculine in any traditional sense. I've been with plenty of women. The three serious relationships I was in lasted over a year. I didn't want to control anyone. I didn't want to be controlled. I just wanted good company, nice conversation, an open, exploratory, and engaging sexual experiences, where we could be comfortable enough with each other to express ourselves in what is obviously one of the most emotionally and psychologically delicate situations.

I've been in shorter relationships with friends, and all but 1 were just fine. I didn't have to exploit anyone, or mislead them. I was just being as honest as I could possibly be. I stopped caring about any potentiality for flack from girls. If I like you and its becoming obvious to me that the feelings are mutual, than I will just note my attraction. It doesn't mean I have to do or not do anything. It doesn't mean that if I don't try super hard to chase down that attraction, that I'm a coward or I have somehow failed. I would never want to instigate anything with a girl that she didn't want, and so I never do unless I know for sure, by means of direct, verbal communication, that I'm engaging in exactly what she wants (assuming I'm wanting the same things.) Really, at this age, those short-term relationships were just distractions from the real world, I see now. They were nice, and while they were honest, they honestly didn't offer much. Sex hardly creates memories, and I never worry specifically about some night's performance, because no one is going to top themselves every night.

Just get on with your life and you will find someone based off your experiences with your own life. You would be much more apt to have deep and meaningful times. If you are just concerned about the girls and guys who are constantly in search of their partner, their probably not going to be great because they've made the person they are going after their highest priority. How unattractive... that that's what life amounts to for some people... finding mates.

I like strong, confident girls, who aren't afraid to speak their minds, and who aren't arrogant enough to ever change it. Two of the girls in my life were probably more influential than all of my male best friends.

The girl I was just with (she moved out of town for college, we didn't break up) did not expect me to be anything all the time. When I was more confidant, it was great. When I was tender or subject to bad things, I never felt ashamed or embarrassed to share my feelings.

Yea, I must be one of the luckiest guys in the world, whenever I stopped caring about immediate gratification. Even when I go a year without being with a girl, it just allows me to focus more on myself and be more productive. When I am with a girl, I sometimes lose focus, but I learn a lot about individuals, and in turn, learn a ton about myself. I learn a ton about myself because I'm always willing to listen, and in return, others are willing to listen to me, which allows to really open up. And opening up to people shows you things about yourself you would never have access to otherwise. What could be better, to truly discover yourself and others?

Or I guess we can just keep assuming that all of the opposite gender are the same, and must be treated in some certain way, and never really feel comfortable to be ourselves around them, and never really find out anything about ourselves and others.

wa:do

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Well, maybe it is you? Have you ever thought about it? Maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with you. Maybe instead, you are a misogynist. Yup that could be it! Maybe women reject you because you don't look at us as fellow human being but objects.

I consider myself a nice guy and I have never had a problem with rejection. Could it be the problem is you? :sarcastic

 

[MoonWater]

It's because women want to be sexually dominated by a tall, dark stranger and his rod of steel.



Women tend to reject me because I am not enough of a neandarthal.

You can't have it both ways you know!

Women don't want a nice metro guy - they prefer something more rugged and masculine.

Money is a key motivator as well, so sadly, personality trails in a distant third.

Just a fact of life.

Why all this idealistic talk of 'it's the personality that matters' - pure nonsense.

If what you say above is actually true then explain why I, as a woman, have been happily dating and discussing marriage with the same underweight, scruffy, freckled, glasses wearing, dorky, jobless, poor, timid, out of shape, nerd, with poor social skills for the past 5 1/2 years.

He's clearly not a neanderthal... it can't be for the money because his family is overall poorer than mine and I have consistently made more money than him throughout our time together even back when he did have a job. I'm the primary breadwinner in our relationship and would not mind at all if it stayed that way(provided he pulls his own weight in other areas of course, we are partners after all)... and it can't be looks because both he and I have admitted to each other that there are numerous men out there, even among our own group of friends, who are far more attractive/handsome/sexy/whatever than he is.

So what is it nnmartin? why would I, as a woman, be with this guy when it seems to defy everything you claim as fact?

I really would like to know what your thoughts on this are.

the only difference is that the tough guy gets to play with the object, but the nice guy only gets the wrappings.

I am no object, I am not attracted to "tough guys", and I can assure you the "nice guy" I am with now is certainly NOT stuck with "just the wrappings"

what I can't understand is why people don't just openly admit these things.

Why can't women just say - I hate weedy nice guys, I prefer a macho, male sexist pig that will protect me from all the other macho, male sexist pigs?

Maybe because that's not always and in fact rarely is the case. It's certainly not with me since I happen to be dating a "weedy nice guy" and have always dated "weedy nice guys"(plus one fat one)

that would be far easier to deal with.

I can admit my view easy enough.

I like a woman who is feminine, good in bed, reasonably intelligent and not prim or proper.

how about that?

good for you. but that doesn't mean that that's what every man wants or that every woman only cares about looks and money.

The thing is most people can admit their views easily enough. Just because the view they hold is different from yours doesn't automatically mean they're secretly hiding some alternate view that actually does mesh with yours.

also I must add: I hate these self-righteous NGO types that plague the town I am living in - usually middle class, white liberal girls that secretly desire Caveman orgy!

I'm a middle class white liberal girl and I certainly have NO desire for a caveman orgy. Any man making such an offer to me would receive a look of disgust and contempt from me at best.

ok, so how many hot chicks do you see dating the skinny guy who sweeps the floor at the diner?

*raises hand* I'm one. Maybe not literally as my bf is currently unemployed but I could easily see him doing that kind of job and he would certainly pick up such a job if it were offered. And while I have never heard those exact words in a description of me but every man who has brought it up(at least as far as I remember) has called me very attractive or beautiful or used some other wording that would equate to the same idea as "hot chick".

Men who know me know better than to call me "hot chick" to my face:devil:

 

[Riverwolf]

If what you say above is actually true then explain why I, as a woman, have been happily dating and discussing marriage with the same underweight, scruffy, freckled, glasses wearing, dorky, jobless, poor, timid, out of shape, nerd, with poor social skills for the past 5 1/2 years.

He's clearly not a neanderthal... it can't be for the money because his family is overall poorer than mine and I have consistently made more money than him throughout our time together even back when he did have a job. I'm the primary breadwinner in our relationship and would not mind at all if it stayed that way(provided he pulls his own weight in other areas of course, we are partners after all)... and it can't be looks because both he and I have admitted to each other that there are numerous men out there, even among our own group of friends, who are far more attractive/handsome/sexy/whatever than he is.

:clap2: Hello!!