Nichiren Buddhism a great contradiction?

[AndromedaRXJ]

You practiced with Nichiren Shoshu Temple, not with the SGI? How was your experience and why do you say it's one of the most dogmatic forms of Buddhism?

No it wasn't SGI. But they were always at each other's throats.

I was born into it and stopped practicing when I was 18. I dunno if dogmatic was the right word, but they kept asserting that it was the one and only true Buddhism. Also, it's the only form of Nichiren Buddhism where they consider Nichiren Shonen to be the true Buddha above Siddhartha or something like that.

There's like stories of him summoning a meteor to fall from the sky and what-not. Like really?

 

[Interesting7]

I started practicing with SGI when SGI was still NSA. I remember people always calling the Buddhism practiced in NS as "Nichiren Daishonin's True Buddhism." It sounded funny to me because it sort of implied that there must be some false Buddhism" elsewhere. I wonder why people inside NS were always at each other's throats...

 

[von bek]

Keeping in mind that I practice Theravada Buddhism and do not consider the Lotus Sutra to have actually been taught by the Buddha, I do have a brief reflection on the text that I would like to share. Also, I want to reiterate that even though I do not consider the Lotus Sutra to have been taught by Gautama Buddha, I do think it is a beautiful text. Having read it several times, I fully understand why it is so influential and powerful for so many Buddhists.

My reading of the Lotus Sutra is that the Buddha reveals his power of skillful means in leading all beings out of suffering. The Tathagata has many teachings and techniques that he applies to the appropriate situation. Given the Buddha's omniscience, he knows what teaching is best suited for a particular man or woman. With this in mind, I am genuinely curious why Nichiren teaches to abandon all teachings except the Lotus Sutra when it appears that the Lotus Sutra itself is stating that all of the Buddhist practices are valid. In other words, vipassana meditation, the Nembutsu, zazen, all of these things that are present in other traditions are contained within the Lotus Sutra itself, even if not explicitly stated as such. Nichiren's reading seems too narrow, in my opinion.

 

[Interesting7]

"Nichiren's reading seems too narrow, in my opinion."

I am leaning toward thinking exactly the same...

Can you find me any specific passage from the Lotus Sutra where it states that all of the Buddhist practices are valid?

I would appreciate it!

 

[von bek]

"Nichiren's reading seems too narrow, in my opinion."

I am leaning toward thinking exactly the same...

Can you find me any specific passage from the Lotus Sutra where it states that all of the Buddhist practices are valid?

I would appreciate it!

In reading the Lotus Sutra, you will come across the Buddha repeatedly saying things like this:

Having understood the various desires and deep-rooted inclinations of sentient beings, I teach the Dharma according to their capacities through the power of skillful means, using various explanations and illustrations. O Shariputra! I do this in order to make them attain the omniscience of the single Buddha-vehicle. O Shariputra! Since there is no second vehicle in the worlds of the ten directions, how could there be a third!

The above was taken from the second chapter of the Lotus Sutra, but I could find similar passages throughout the text. What is key here is that the Buddha is saying he taught various practices based on the person and audience. Whatever was best in that situation is what the Buddha taught. This is the power of the Buddha's skillful means. If what Nichiren says were true, the whole point of the Buddha's skillful means, which is to lead all beings out of suffering, would be undermined as the older teachings would not have the power to lead to liberation. The Buddha speaks of one vehicle, not because he only has one teaching, but because the one vehicle contains ALL of his teachings.

 

[von bek]

I think I may spend some time later on today or tomorrow and go through my copy of the Lotus Sutra, again.

Interesting7, have you checked out the Tendai school? Tendai places a great importance on the Lotus Sutra; but, they do not interpret the text in an exclusive manner like Nichiren does.

Tendai-shu > What’s Tendai-shu > Dengyō-Daishi’s Life and Teaching

Tendai |

 

[Interesting7]

I personally agree with your view, which seems more balanced and healthy. I have not looked into Tendai Buddhism, which is not widely propagated and has no sangha that I know of at least in my local neighborhood.

But according to my source, the LS is self-praising, and the idea of the LS is superior to all other Buddhist teachings actually originated from the LS itself. If you tried reading the LS you would come across only a few passages actually elucidating the truth as Nichiren says.

The Blessings of the Lotus Sutra | WND I | Nichiren Buddhism Library

"And the more one praises the blessings of the Lotus Sutra, the more one’s own blessings will increase. Bear in mind that the twenty-eight chapters of the Lotus Sutra contain only a few passages elucidating the truth, but a great many words of praise."


The Lotus Sutra[10] - The Teacher of the Law

"If for the space of a kalpa
one should constantly harbor a mind destitute of good
and with angry looks should revile the Buddha,
he will be committing an offense of immeasurable gravity.
But if toward those who read, recite and embrace
this Lotus Sutra
one should even for a moment direct evil words,
his offense will be even greater.
If there is someone who seeks the Buddha way
and during a certain kalpa
presses palms together in my presence
and recites numberless verses of praise,
because of these praises of the Buddha
he will gain immeasurable blessings.
And if one lauds and extols those who uphold this sutra,
his good fortune will be even greater.
For the space of eighty million kalpas,
with the most wonderful shapes and sounds,
with that which is pleasing to smell, taste and touch,
offer alms to the upholders of this sutra!
If you have offered alms in this manner
and have heard the teachings for even a moment,
then you will experience joy and good fortune,
saying, "I have gained great benefit!"
Medicine King, now I say to you,
I have preached various sutras,
and among those sutras
the Lotus is foremost!"

"The way of the bodhisattva is the same as this. As long as a person has not yet heard. Not yet understood. And not yet been able to practice this Lotus Sutra, then you should know that person is still far away from anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. Why? Because all bodhisattvas who attain anuttara-samyak-sambodhi in all cases do so through this sutra. This sutra opens the gate of expedient means and shows the form of true reality. This storehouse of the Lotus Sutra is hidden deep and far away where no person can reach it. But the Buddha, teaching, converting and leading to success the bodhisattvas, opens it up for them."

 

[raaeft1]

I am a Nichiren Buddhist and I am reading the Gosho. I am also studying different forms of Tao and Buddhism besides Hinduism I can say that maybe Nichiren was incorrect in some of his interpretations. However, a senior leader, who has been practising Nichiren Buddhism as a SGI member, told me that in the 21st century one must read the Goshos with a "pinch of salt" and take only what appeals to our innermost being instead of being bogged down by his interpretations relating to Chinese/Japanese Buddhism.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am a Nichiren Buddhist and I am reading the Gosho. I am also studying different forms of Tao and Buddhism besides Hinduism I can say that maybe Nichiren was incorrect in some of his interpretations. However, a senior leader, who has been practising Nichiren Buddhism as a SGI member, told me that in the 21st century one must read the Goshos with a "pinch of salt" and take only what appeals to our innermost being instead of being bogged down by his interpretations relating to Chinese/Japanese Buddhism.

I practiced with Nichiren Shoshu for two years ans SGI for a year and now off and on. The issue really isnt the Gosho but that Shoshu puts Nichiren over Shakyamunim SGI puts Ikeda in a intermediary position to where rarely anyone reads directly from the Gosho and no one so far picks up the Lotus Sutra itself.

Nichiren always said go to The Lotus Sutra. He pointed to himself as enlightened but never said he was the source. The problem also is Nichiren followers of SGI and Shoshu (dont know about Shu) are not following the Gosho teachings. The former is following following the priesthood and none have told me even what the gosho is. Rather, they have a big issue with SGI so much they tried to talk me to be against them. SGI has a more political stance on their fustration with Shoshu.

The Lotus Sutra does mention all so far of what I read of Pali. The difference is in the Pali, the focus is on self enljghtenment. Test the teacher. The Lotus focus on enlightenment given directly from The Buddha. As he puts himself in a savior position that the Pali doesnt do.

Id say Nichiren had a bad taste for other schools but then he also mentions other schools arent "wrong" as in they are false he just says they are wrong for this tike period.

The who Shoshu and SGI is messed up by politics. That and Nichiren doesnt mention to much about "happiness" as enlightenment. He also doesnt focus on anyone or thing being a guide to enlightenment but Daimoku and the Lotus.

So, I kind of stop practicing but I hold all Buddhist morals as 100 percent true. I havnt found a tradition that either is near me or follows Shakyamuni teachings.

There arent many Nichiren Buddhist on this site. I am as I have my Gohonzon. I bet we can have fruitful conversations?

 

[raaeft1]

I practiced with Nichiren Shoshu for two years ans SGI for a year and now off and on. The issue really isnt the Gosho but that Shoshu puts Nichiren over Shakyamunim SGI puts Ikeda in a intermediary position to where rarely anyone reads directly from the Gosho and no one so far picks up the Lotus Sutra itself.

Nichiren always said go to The Lotus Sutra. He pointed to himself as enlightened but never said he was the source. The problem also is Nichiren followers of SGI and Shoshu (dont know about Shu) are not following the Gosho teachings. The former is following following the priesthood and none have told me even what the gosho is. Rather, they have a big issue with SGI so much they tried to talk me to be against them. SGI has a more political stance on their fustration with Shoshu.

The Lotus Sutra does mention all so far of what I read of Pali. The difference is in the Pali, the focus is on self enljghtenment. Test the teacher. The Lotus focus on enlightenment given directly from The Buddha. As he puts himself in a savior position that the Pali doesnt do.

Id say Nichiren had a bad taste for other schools but then he also mentions other schools arent "wrong" as in they are false he just says they are wrong for this tike period.

The who Shoshu and SGI is messed up by politics. That and Nichiren doesnt mention to much about "happiness" as enlightenment. He also doesnt focus on anyone or thing being a guide to enlightenment but Daimoku and the Lotus.

So, I kind of stop practicing but I hold all Buddhist morals as 100 percent true. I havnt found a tradition that either is near me or follows Shakyamuni teachings.

There arent many Nichiren Buddhist on this site. I am as I have my Gohonzon. I bet we can have fruitful conversations?

yes we can have fruitful discussions

 

[LuisDantas]

Here in Brazil we have quite the internal division among Nichiren groups.

BSGI is at odds with the Nichiren Shoshu that it originated from, and both are seen as "not really Buddhism" by most everyone else, including the Nichiren Shu school, mostly because they neglect the actual teachings and raise the Gohonzon to the level of a miraculous all-purpose panacea.

There is also the very unadvisable choice of deciding to raise Nichiren to the level of the "original Buddha of the current times", which is in and of itself plenty enough reason to ask why they even call themselves Buddhism at all.

There is also the HBS group (Honmon Butsuryu-Shu). To the best of my understanding it, too, is not really Buddhist although it is not aligned with either SGI, BSGI nor Nichiren Shoshu. Apparently only Nitiren Shu is a true Buddhist group that has presence in Brazil and claims inheritance from Nichiren's teachings.

From what I hear, that is not all that different from how it is anywhere else.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

yes we can have fruitful discussions

Why would the Gosho be taken as a pinch of salt? Nichiren says himself that to understand Daimku, Nichiren Buddhists should follow his teachings from how to honor the Gohonzon to even offerings to our ancestors (Gosho 1). It talks about how to take care of the Gohonzon and even explicitly talks about what each character of Daimoku means and relates it to the Lotus.

Do you read the Gosho and is it part of your practice?