Nine Pieces Of Evidence That Confirm The Historical Accuracy Of The Bible

[joelr]

How can I react to that?


Prophecies to me are maps. Like the ones you see on the mall. It tells you where you are and where you want to go. At least I know where we are and what is bound to happen next.

View attachment 28363

But mapping horses/seals which each represent vague concepts onto events that happened over 2000 years and really didn't even match the words in revelations is like looking at a map and randomly writing in the names of streets and towns at whim.

I mean you took one seal and mapped it to a random earthquake which wasn't any special earthquake but then moved the "red sky" part of the seal to a completely different forest fire event which was years later and on a different continent?
Even if I believed revelations contained a real prophecy from a divine source I would definitely agree with the majority of theologian scholars who believe these events are going to happen all in a sequence at the actual end times.

And they will be worldwide dramatic events. Revelations is in most mythologies. In Norse myths it's called Ragnarok. It's probably in Egyptian myths as well. It's worldwide destruction.
Not a 1 day forest fire causing ash to redden the sky for 20 minutes? Or an earthquake in a city?

 

[MJFlores]

Or an earthquake in a city?

I would focus on one. The great earthquake.
It is not the greatest earthquake, but only a great earthquake.
If it is great, then people really remembered it to the point of
putting the whole thing in the encyclopedia.
To me it fits the chronological order / date of things.

Revelation 6:12 New International Version (NIV)
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,

The 1755 Lisbon earthquake, also known as the Great Lisbon earthquake, occurred in the Kingdom of Portugal on the morning of Saturday, 1 November, Feast of All Saints, at around 09:40 local time.[2] In combination with subsequent fires and a tsunami, the earthquake almost totally destroyed Lisbon and adjoining areas. Seismologists today estimate the Lisbon earthquake had a magnitude in the range 8.5–9.0[3][4] on the moment magnitude scale, with its epicentre in the Atlantic Ocean about 200 km (120 mi) west-southwest of Cape St. Vincent. Chronologically it was the third known large scale earthquake to hit the city (one in 1321 and another in 1531). Estimates place the death toll in Lisbon alone between 10,000 and 100,000 people,[5] making it one of the deadliest earthquakes in history.

The earthquake accentuated political tensions in the Kingdom of Portugal and profoundly disrupted the country's colonial ambitions. The event was widely discussed and dwelt upon by European Enlightenment philosophers, and inspired major developments in theodicy. As the first earthquake studied scientifically for its effects over a large area, it led to the birth of modern seismology and earthquake engineering.

1755 Lisbon earthquake - Wikipedia

 

[Subduction Zone]

I would focus on one. The great earthquake.
It is not the greatest earthquake, but only a great earthquake.
If it is great, then people really remembered it to the point of
putting the whole thing in the encyclopedia.
To me it fits the chronological order / date of things.

Revelation 6:12 New International Version (NIV)
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,

The 1755 Lisbon earthquake, also known as the Great Lisbon earthquake, occurred in the Kingdom of Portugal on the morning of Saturday, 1 November, Feast of All Saints, at around 09:40 local time.[2] In combination with subsequent fires and a tsunami, the earthquake almost totally destroyed Lisbon and adjoining areas. Seismologists today estimate the Lisbon earthquake had a magnitude in the range 8.5–9.0[3][4] on the moment magnitude scale, with its epicentre in the Atlantic Ocean about 200 km (120 mi) west-southwest of Cape St. Vincent. Chronologically it was the third known large scale earthquake to hit the city (one in 1321 and another in 1531). Estimates place the death toll in Lisbon alone between 10,000 and 100,000 people,[5] making it one of the deadliest earthquakes in history.

The earthquake accentuated political tensions in the Kingdom of Portugal and profoundly disrupted the country's colonial ambitions. The event was widely discussed and dwelt upon by European Enlightenment philosophers, and inspired major developments in theodicy. As the first earthquake studied scientifically for its effects over a large area, it led to the birth of modern seismology and earthquake engineering.

1755 Lisbon earthquake - Wikipedia

Since "great earthquakes" are quite common you need a more accurate prophecy than used. You really need to study up on what makes a prophecy a failed prophecy.

 

[Skwim]

Words which are unrelated to the statement I made concerning the Video. Your changing the subject to address that which is not the issue shows a defined lack of skill in understanding the task before you. It requires knowledge of the bible and knowledge of what they are referring to in the video not mere personal opinion which is unfounded and unsubstantiated at best.

As pointed out in post #616 by Subduction Zone, your approach is ". . . an attempt to shift the burden of proof. It is a tactic used by those that know that they have a false belief. "

As for your silly assertion that you made some kind of germane statement concerning the video (I'm assuming it would have been germane had you actually said something):

Your 1st post (610) only addressed my motives, their failure, plus some other inconsequential matters

Post number 2 (614) was an ad hom directed at Dan Mellis

Number 3 (615) was a nonsense post you made in reference to the Dan Mellis post (614)

Number 4 (618) was an ignorant claim directed at Subduction Zone that there is no burden of proof to shift, plus a pompous ad hom thrown in for good measure.

Number 5 (619) was an attempt to tap dance your way away from confronting the assertion I made about the video I presented:

"Irrelevant claims about the historical accuracy of the Bible is simply stupid stuff that fills the believer with unjustified confidence in his faith."​

All in all dear RESOLUTION,your inability to discuss/debate issues at a mature level is a bit exasperating, and your arrogance, repugnant. So I bid you adieu

Have a good day

.​

 

[Dan Mellis]

Hi Dan,




Some old chestnuts never change.

What it does not do is prove the none existence of God.
Nor does it disprove God as creator of the world.
It points to the bible being correct in that which is written.
What it does not do or attempt to do is prove the existence of God or anything written in the bible to be false.
So instead of telling me what you believe I can or cannot do. Maybe you should address the video for it's real purpose and content.
A sharing of what has been discovered and why it has no bearing on the real power of God and his being.

Believers do not need videos to support their claims. Until people like yourself Dan Mellis can prove God not real or his words untrue then there is nothing you or other atheists can offer which needs defending.

Absolutely! Religious people can believe whatever they like. However, all an atheist has to say is "you're wrong" and their position is every bit as justified.

It isn't on the non-religious to disprove anything. If you want to defend your faith against people like us and the undeniable, observable rise in atheism then its on you to meet your burden of proof.

If I was to say "I can fly and move stuff with my mind, but you just have to believe me or prove me wrong" you'd expect me to demstrate it. If you make a claim about god and the bible, and try to apply it to others positions, you have to prove it or have it rejected in its entirety.

I mightnt be able to disprove god, but you cannot prove it either - you can't disprove much in this universe, but if something exists we can usually point to some sort of solid evidence for it.

 

[Spartan]

Your argument may be that my position is that secularism holds a better moral position, which it does...

You can't be serious.

"Despite the idealistic goals of (secular) liberalism, attempts to build a Utopian liberal society in America have only led to heightened outbreaks of AIDS, VD, porno-related crime, social divisions, divorce, abortion, drug addictions, deficit spending, the welfare state, a crushing tax burden, the breakdown of the family unit, moral depravity, and numerous other such scourges which have resulted in enormous societal suffering and discontent. As a result, liberal fundamentalism is strongly associated with left-wing fanaticism, reverse-racism, anti-intellectualism, elitism, nihilism, godlessness, and societal violence."

Beware of Liberal Fundamentalism

Liberal Fundamentalism

Not to mention how Sodom and Gomorrah and its same-sex debauchery made out.

 

[Zita]

.

Or so the video below claims.

The List of Nine, which supposedly verify claims made in the Bible. (The narrator provides the relevant chapters and verses.)

1) A stone that confirms that Pontius Pilatus was the Prefect of Judea.

2) A tunnel was created under the city of David to carry water.

3) A clay cylinder describes how Sennacherib laid siege against various cities

4) A stone mentioning there was an Israelite king of the house of David.

5) A stone cites Omri as the king of Israel.

6) The remnants of a house was found that verifies the town of Nazareth existed in the first century AD.

7) A clay cylinder recounts Cyrus II declaration of human rights

8) The discovery of the pool of Siloam

9) A stone tablet shows the existence of the Hittites


​

Of course our young presenter in the video conveniently ignores all the evidence that disproves the Bible's historical accuracy, but this is to be expected. When cherry picking one never picks the "bad" cherries.

In any case, even if all nine of the examples are true, one can only say, SO WHAT? What's so amazing (as the narrator would like the viewer to believe) about historical events showing up in the Bible? Heck, even if the Bible was a pure fabrication from Genesis to Revelation, the fabricator would certainly have been astute enough to include historical facts to make the thing appear genuine---it's why counterfeiters go to such extremes to make their money appear real. In this case it's like expecting the viewer to get excited because the Bible mentions the Mediterranean Sea, or that the Sun sets in the west. SO WHAT?

Nope, it's stupid stuff like this video that fill the believer with unjustified confidence in his faith. Do Christians really need to be duped so as to hold onto their faith? . . . . . . . . . . . . . maybe so, but it's not pretty.

.

I didn't even look, I just read, and I totally agree with you.bravo!!

 

[Zita]

I always chuckle on how people scratch each others back to disprove the Bible as they cherry pick scriptures and/or twist them to their liking.

We understand, of course, that when one is in disagreement and don't agree, anything can be constructed to confirm and validate their position.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the spectrum, intelligent people continue to change their position and believe what the Bible says.

Go figure.

Spoken like a true Christian!! "intelligent people", The people who say the bible is accurate because it's written?who are you trying to convince that it takes intelligence to read scriptures me or you?

 

[Kenny]

Spoken like a true Christian!! "intelligent people", The people who say the bible is accurate because it's written?who are you trying to convince that it takes intelligence to read scriptures me or you?

Was the above a trolling effort?

How in the world did you get, from what I wrote, the above statements?

Do you always put words in other people's mouths?

 

[Zita]

You can't be serious.

"Despite the idealistic goals of (secular) liberalism, attempts to build a Utopian liberal society in America have only led to heightened outbreaks of AIDS, VD, porno-related crime, social divisions, divorce, abortion, drug addictions, deficit spending, the welfare state, a crushing tax burden, the breakdown of the family unit, moral depravity, and numerous other such scourges which have resulted in enormous societal suffering and discontent. As a result, liberal fundamentalism is strongly associated with left-wing fanaticism, reverse-racism, anti-intellectualism, elitism, nihilism, godlessness, and societal violence."

Beware of Liberal Fundamentalism

Liberal Fundamentalism

Not to mention how Sodom and Gomorrah and its same-sex debauchery made out.

Ok well what you call Liberal Fundamentalismaan has nothing to do with me and my beliefs and spiritual path,

 

[Zita]

Was the above a trolling effort?

How in the world did you get, from what I wrote, the above statements?

Do you always put words in other people's mouths?

so very sorry I put this in the wrong box that was not meant for you, once again I apologize.

 

[Zita]

Spoken like a true Christian!! "intelligent people", The people who say the bible is accurate because it's written?who are you trying to convince that it takes intelligence to read scriptures me or you?

I actually agree with your view!!

 

[joelr]

I would focus on one. The great earthquake.
It is not the greatest earthquake, but only a great earthquake.
If it is great, then people really remembered it to the point of
putting the whole thing in the encyclopedia.
To me it fits the chronological order / date of things.]

But on another example you went backwards in time. Now you are saying that going in "chronological order" is meaningful?

Revelation 6:12 New International Version (NIV)

I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,

The 1755 Lisbon earthquake, also known as the Great Lisbon earthquake, occurred in the Kingdom of Portugal on the morning of

Right, over 1000 years later there happens to be an earthquake? This is completely random matching of an earthquake prediction? Of course there is going to be an earthquake They happen constantly?

But fine, let's use that earthquake. Well the sun DID NOT TURN BLACK. The moon DID NOT TURN BLOOD RED?
Did the stars of the heavens FALL TO EARTH?
Did a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind?




The earthquake you picked DOES NOT FIT THE PROPHECY?
Also the writers of Revelations did not know what stars were they thought they were the same thing as shooting stars. Either way, there were no shooting stars and real stars did not crash into Earth.
These are clearly end-time events that will cause world-wide disaster, not local disasters?

Also there was no year given so it's completely arbitrary and so not prophetic to predict events that happen ALL THE TIME like wars, earthquakes, religious persecution, and give them NO DATE so you can use any of the events?

It does not work as a prophecy. It works as a fail to people desperately trying to make prophecies out of revelations.
Why would you even believe the church people who told you this earthquake fits the prophecy? Why were you not like "uh, guys, this doesn't fit at all? The sky and moon are not changing, stars are not falling, high winds are not blowing?

 

[MJFlores]

But on another example you went backwards in time. Now you are saying that going in "chronological order" is meaningful?



Right, over 1000 years later there happens to be an earthquake? This is completely random matching of an earthquake prediction? Of course there is going to be an earthquake They happen constantly?

But fine, let's use that earthquake. Well the sun DID NOT TURN BLACK. The moon DID NOT TURN BLOOD RED?
Did the stars of the heavens FALL TO EARTH?
Did a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind?




The earthquake you picked DOES NOT FIT THE PROPHECY?
Also the writers of Revelations did not know what stars were they thought they were the same thing as shooting stars. Either way, there were no shooting stars and real stars did not crash into Earth.
These are clearly end-time events that will cause world-wide disaster, not local disasters?

Also there was no year given so it's completely arbitrary and so not prophetic to predict events that happen ALL THE TIME like wars, earthquakes, religious persecution, and give them NO DATE so you can use any of the events?

It does not work as a prophecy. It works as a fail to people desperately trying to make prophecies out of revelations.
Why would you even believe the church people who told you this earthquake fits the prophecy? Why were you not like "uh, guys, this doesn't fit at all? The sky and moon are not changing, stars are not falling, high winds are not blowing?

The Book of Revelations are not to be taken literally
The prophecies are hidden in symbols
And you bet, it must be in sequence as the
seals are numbered from one to seven.
They happened as they were opened.

Are we going to look for a literal horse?
Because if we are going to, we might as well go for the races.

Now all of these things are just directions.
Directions to tell us that we are near the door.

Matthew 24:33 New International Version (NIV)
Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

There were different wars, sure
There were famines, uh huh
There were earthquakes, right

But not the ones mentioned in the Book of Revelations
Which are directions - directions which tells us to prepare.

 

[joelr]

You can't be serious.

"Despite the idealistic goals of (secular) liberalism, attempts to build a Utopian liberal society in America have only led to heightened outbreaks of AIDS, VD, porno-related crime, social divisions, divorce, abortion, drug addictions, deficit spending, the welfare state, a crushing tax burden, the breakdown of the family unit, moral depravity, and numerous other such scourges which have resulted in enormous societal suffering and discontent. As a result, liberal fundamentalism is strongly associated with left-wing fanaticism, reverse-racism, anti-intellectualism, elitism, nihilism, godlessness, and societal violence."

Beware of Liberal Fundamentalism

Liberal Fundamentalism

Not to mention how Sodom and Gomorrah and its same-sex debauchery made out.

Looking at a small sub-section of people who HAVE devoted their lives to following morality as it's stated in scripture:

"The study focuses on criminal cases against 190 North American priests and preachers charged with sexual molestation of children during 1988 and 1989. Also studied were 60 child abuse cases involving nonclergy church staff, such as Sunday School teachers, counselors and parochial school teachers and principals. Additionally, there were 62 civil suits during those years brought against molesting pastors and their churches. See section below for details on related studies.

Of the accused clergy, 75 were Catholic priests (39.5%) and 111 were Protestant ministers (58%). (Also charged were 1 Mormon clergyman, 1 occult minister and 2 cult ministers.) Protestant cases involved equal numbers of mainstream and fundamentalist/evangelical denominations. This study revealed no rabbis charged with child molestation."

Unique Study Reveals Epidemic - Freedom From Religion Foundation

In just one year in the US 200 cases of molestation arose? How dare you bring up AIDS, if these clergy had AIDS they would have passed it on to children.
Even people devoting their lives to religion can't stop an EPIDEMIC of child raping?

Many of the issues you list are not issues of religion. Religion is rampant in many areas of the southern US as well as inner cities. So is crime. Your just using these issues to forward an agenda.
Those issues are economy based more than religion based.

Thinking divorce is bad is archaic. Yeah, 2 people who can't get along should stay together bicker and argue and be angry and resentful and suffer emotional and physical abuse until they die? Like that's going to raise healthy kids?

 

[joelr]

The Book of Revelations are not to be taken literally
The prophecies are hidden in symbols
And you bet, it must be in sequence as the
seals are numbered from one to seven.
They happened as they were opened.

Are we going to look for a literal horse?
Because if we are going to, we might as well go for the races.
View attachment 28541

Now all of these things are just directions.
Directions to tell us that we are near the door.

Matthew 24:33 New International Version (NIV)
Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

There were different wars, sure
There were famines, uh huh
There were earthquakes, right

But not the ones mentioned in the Book of Revelations
Which are directions - directions which tells us to prepare.

Exactly, the events that happened were NOT THE EVENTS IN REVELATIONS. There was no red/black moon sky and no falling stars so that was not the earthquake in Revelations, Period.



But you don't get to backpeddle. You were taking these prophecies literal, in fact you even counted up gods "days and hours" to be a literal exact 20 years of peace.

You said:
"If the book says this and that will happen - and it did - wouldn't that be neat?
Please do find something that would disprove the 6 prophecies versus historical record.
It was one of the many bible doctrine studies in our church.
If anyone could disprove these and say it is another event then that would be something."


So you were being literal. But now that I've pointed out one prophecy actually doesn't fit Revelations at all you're changing your tune.

Which actually makes it worse. Now it's even more ambiguous.
Your "evidence" of prophecy has turned out to be a fantasy based on nebulous facts that change as one looks to closely at what's being said.

And like I pointed out, Nostradamus actually made far far more accurate predictions that point to more precise events.
Some of the coincidences in his predictions are pretty amazing.
It's still mde-up trickery but it's at least impressive.

 

[MJFlores]

Exactly, the events that happened were NOT THE EVENTS IN REVELATIONS. There was no red/black moon sky and no falling stars so that was not the earthquake in Revelations, Period.



But you don't get to backpeddle. You were taking these prophecies literal, in fact you even counted up gods "days and hours" to be a literal exact 20 years of peace.

You said:
"If the book says this and that will happen - and it did - wouldn't that be neat?
Please do find something that would disprove the 6 prophecies versus historical record.
It was one of the many bible doctrine studies in our church.
If anyone could disprove these and say it is another event then that would be something."


So you were being literal. But now that I've pointed out one prophecy actually doesn't fit Revelations at all you're changing your tune.

Which actually makes it worse. Now it's even more ambiguous.
Your "evidence" of prophecy has turned out to be a fantasy based on nebulous facts that change as one looks to closely at what's being said.

And like I pointed out, Nostradamus actually made far far more accurate predictions that point to more precise events.
Some of the coincidences in his predictions are pretty amazing.
It's still mde-up trickery but it's at least impressive.

But you don't get to backpeddle. You were taking these prophecies literal, in fact you even counted up gods "days and hours" to be a literal exact 20 years of peace.

What did the bible say?

Revelation 8:1 New International Version (NIV)
When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

Sure there were wars between World War 1 and World War 2
Interwar period - Wikipedia

But the Bible refers to silence in heaven
Not localized wars but something global
Nobody is buzzing around in their planes globally

the interwar period was the period between the end of the First World War in November 1918 and the beginning of the Second World War in September 1939

 

[Subduction Zone]

Exactly, the events that happened were NOT THE EVENTS IN REVELATIONS. There was no red/black moon sky and no falling stars so that was not the earthquake in Revelations, Period.



But you don't get to backpeddle. You were taking these prophecies literal, in fact you even counted up gods "days and hours" to be a literal exact 20 years of peace.

You said:
"If the book says this and that will happen - and it did - wouldn't that be neat?
Please do find something that would disprove the 6 prophecies versus historical record.
It was one of the many bible doctrine studies in our church.
If anyone could disprove these and say it is another event then that would be something."


So you were being literal. But now that I've pointed out one prophecy actually doesn't fit Revelations at all you're changing your tune.

Which actually makes it worse. Now it's even more ambiguous.
Your "evidence" of prophecy has turned out to be a fantasy based on nebulous facts that change as one looks to closely at what's being said.

And like I pointed out, Nostradamus actually made far far more accurate predictions that point to more precise events.
Some of the coincidences in his predictions are pretty amazing.
It's still mde-up trickery but it's at least impressive.

I see that you misunderstood. It is an error for others to treat prophecies as being literal.

 

[Spartan]

Looking at a small sub-section of people who HAVE devoted their lives to following morality as it's stated in scripture:

"The study focuses on criminal cases against 190 North American priests and preachers charged with sexual molestation of children during 1988 and 1989. Also studied were 60 child abuse cases involving nonclergy church staff, such as Sunday School teachers, counselors and parochial school teachers and principals. Additionally, there were 62 civil suits during those years brought against molesting pastors and their churches. See section below for details on related studies.

Of the accused clergy, 75 were Catholic priests (39.5%) and 111 were Protestant ministers (58%). (Also charged were 1 Mormon clergyman, 1 occult minister and 2 cult ministers.) Protestant cases involved equal numbers of mainstream and fundamentalist/evangelical denominations. This study revealed no rabbis charged with child molestation."

Unique Study Reveals Epidemic - Freedom From Religion Foundation

In just one year in the US 200 cases of molestation arose? How dare you bring up AIDS, if these clergy had AIDS they would have passed it on to children.
Even people devoting their lives to religion can't stop an EPIDEMIC of child raping?

Many of the issues you list are not issues of religion. Religion is rampant in many areas of the southern US as well as inner cities. So is crime. Your just using these issues to forward an agenda.
Those issues are economy based more than religion based.

Thinking divorce is bad is archaic. Yeah, 2 people who can't get along should stay together bicker and argue and be angry and resentful and suffer emotional and physical abuse until they die? Like that's going to raise healthy kids?

You can't diss the moral laws of God / Christianity and say they are immoral by citing examples of people who violate them.

 

[Spartan]

Contrary to the view of many skeptics, there is considerable historical support for Jesus Christ. There are over forty authors / individuals who wrote about Jesus within 150 years of his life.

For Jesus there were 9 authors from the New Testament who wrote about him in the 1st century: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Author of of Hebrews, James, Peter, and Jude. There were 21 early Christian writers outside the NT - Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Martyrdom of Polycarp, Didache, Barnabus, Shepherd of Hermas, Fragments of Papias, Justin Martyr, Aristides, Athenagoras, Theophious of Antioch, Quadratus, Aristo of Pella, Melito of Sardis, Diognetus, Gospel of Peter, Apocalypse of Peter, and Epistula Apostolorum. 4 heretical writings - Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Truth, Apocryphon of John, Treatise on Resurrection. And 9 secular non-Christian sources, including Josephus, Tacticus, Pliny the Younger, Phlegon, Lucian, Celcus, Mara Bar-Serapion, Seutonous, Thallus.