Nirvana

[autonomous1one1]

How would "you" know though? Answer me that and I'll give you a cookie.

There is no 'you' to know. (You may give my cookie to your sister.)

 

[YmirGF]

There is no 'you' to know. (You may give my cookie to your sister.)

Then, by default, there IS nothing to know.

 

[koan]

How would "you" know though? Answer me that and I'll give you a cookie.

Would you like a cup of tea with your cookie?

 

[autonomous1one1]

Then, by default, there IS nothing to know.

Exactly, not by a finite 'you.'

 

[YmirGF]

Exactly, not by a finite 'you.'

I don't tend to think in terms of a "finite you", Robert. Try again.

 

[YmirGF]

Would you like a cup of tea with your cookie?

I have coffee, thanks. Robert might like some tea however.

 

[joea]

Thank you to all Dharma friends for your posts. The thread was to gain more understanding on my part, on the question of Nirvana. It is true, that when Buddha speaks, we are bound to misunderstand hence, these discussions are needed...

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Personally finding so many buddha minds conversing there That in itself is *enlightening*! [Now do not ask me for whom?, how? etc.]

Once again, Personal understanding is:
The mind thinks and so the *I* gets created and when the mind [thoughts], is stilled it is realized that there is no *I* and this realization is enlightenment and then the process of thoughts slowly dropping off keeps happening [as the mind stills and finally when all thoughts drops off then such a state is the state of nirvana when one is enlightened on all there is to be enlightened about.
Finally all are just labels used which can be changed as per the environment of communication; however *SILENCE* still remains the best mode of transmission as silence is only when the MIND is totally STILL.

Love & rgds

 

[Wessexman]

Much of Buddhism is hard for Westerners to understand. As I did for Taoism I'll recommend using certain Western ideas, particularly Platonism-Pythagoreanism as well as Vedanta to understand certain aspects of it. It certainly would be wrong to over use this methodology or to Platonise Buddhism but it helped me.

In essentials Nirvana is returning to the One. That which alone is absolutely real. This means extinction of the ego and individuality as we understand it but one is still part of consciousness and Reality itself and is beyond the limits of relative personhood. Nirvana is also much more than this which discursive thought and human language are powerless to convey.

 

[joea]

Nirvana is also much more than this which discursive thought and human language are powerless to convey.

Then in your own experience, how would you convey it?

 

[Wessexman]

Partially through symbolism but partly I wouldn't convey them at all. Only the Bodhi or eye of the heart could do that, which each individual must open himself.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I thought Nirvana = Nothingness. Kind of like was many secular humanists believe what happens to the soul after death

 

[Wessexman]

No-thingness would be a better way of putting it. It is No-thing but is everything.

 

[koan]

I think Wessexman and StGiordano are a bit mistaken. I believe St Giordano is talking more about Para-Nirvana. Nirvana is the end of suffering, Para - nirvana is the end of the line.
The Buddha entered Nirvana after sitting under the Bo tree. The Buddha entered Para-Nirvana, upon dying.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Of all the traditional religions Buddhism is the one I warm up most to but para-nirvana I do have issues with the perception of time, because it is only through consciousness we gain any perception of time. So if you never exist for an eternity then you have no perception of time for that eternity then even time itself would come to an end so to speak. But IMO I think that would be paradoxical, because time should never end wouldn't it?

But I have a theory that can circumvent that paradox, and that is that we simply MUST exist in one certain spacio-temporal location of the universe. So when one dies the sense of self not entirely obliterated but instead just becomes very much reduced - reduced to a single unifying principle at a phase the universe reached a critical level of complexity to permit consciousness to happen, just as it needed to reach a critical level of complexity for metallicity to happen, so momentarily you are one with a collective principle such as a collective ensemble of foetal brains obeying genetic information of until a person or some other conscious living thing is consciously actualized for you. This could also be a good explanation as to why we exist as this person in spite of the vanishingly slim odds, just simply because it is not possible to be aware of any of the failed attempts to exist.

If this process keeps you, you may eventually personally experience the life of every person that has lived and ever will live and even other intelligent animals. This is also a theory consistent with a Weak Anthropic Principle which posits that it is only through intelligent beings you gain any sense of time and time has any subjective reality. It also means there need to be only one self in the universe in keeping the principle of Ockham’s Razor instead of the clumsy assumption that there are billions of individual “souls” that have all been created uniquely inside individual brains. Instead you just collectively exist as being at one with the human Brain as a pattern of biological design first then you are randomly selected as the person you are. The reason why you will never be aware of any conscious existence in the young universe is because there would be no carbon based life forms to make you an observer and the reason why you will never know of what conditions feel like in a dying black dominated universe is that is too full of entropy and disorder. So you we be forever locked in the time frame of a 13.7 billion year old universe as you switch backwards and forward through physical time.

That is my theory.

 

[joea]

If this process keeps you, you may eventually personally experience the life of every person that has lived and ever will live and even other intelligent animals. This is also a theory consistent with a Weak Anthropic Principle which posits that it is only through intelligent beings you gain any sense of time and time has any subjective reality. It also means there need to be only one self in the universe in keeping the principle of Ockham’s Razor instead of the clumsy assumption that there are billions of individual “souls” that have all been created uniquely inside individual brains. Instead you just collectively exist as being at one with the human Brain as a pattern of biological design first then you are randomly selected as the person you are.

Have no idea what you're talking about...thus is the western mind..

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Have no idea what you're talking about...thus is the western mind..

It is a form of reincarnation actually where you are eventually reincarnated as every sentient living being that has ever lived and ever will live. Which I think is much more in keeping with Eastern beliefs than the traditional Western beliefs such as Western secular humanism and Judeo-Christian beliefs that often strictly believe you can only live one possible earthly life. Which IMHO creates the paradox of time.

 

[koan]

Rebirth, not reicarnation. Reincarnation means, The same one being reborn. Rebirth, mens being reborn as something.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Rebirth, not reicarnation. Reincarnation means, The same one being reborn. Rebirth, mens being reborn as something.

Perhaps I should edit it to rebirth, because reincarnation conjures up all soughts of mystical connotations. Such as the soul separating the body in spirit form. It is more like a subjective switch over.