Nityananda, Sri Chaitanya's associate, Gaudiya Vaishnava saint

[निताइ dasa]

Scripture is secondary. Experience/individual knowledge is best to realise the Lord. Scripture gives us that push.

I would humbly disagree mataji. I don't really want to debate further, but I will say a little bit on this. According to the Vedas, there are three ways in which one may obtain knowledge. The first is called Pratyuksha, or direct sensory inference. The second is called Anumana, or logical inference. The third is called Sabda, or hearing from an authority, ie. Scripture. Human experience falls into the first two. However since the first two are based upon this human body (more importantly the imperfect senses), they are subject to the four defects of human beings. Thus the knowledge obtained from them is always imperfect and incomplete (we cannot see into the depths of the atom. Even experience is limited as we cannot experience everything at once). The absolute Truth however is perfect and complete, it cannot be grasped on the basis of human experience alone. Yes human experience can support it, but it is always secondary. Thus mercifully God Himself has descended as Srila Veda Vyasa and written the scriptures for the benefit of all human beings, to teach them the Truth. Since the scriptures emerge from God, they are not prone to the human defects and hence carry with them the knowledge of the Truth. I mean without the scriptures, I don't think we can even be called followers of the Sanatana Dharma. However you are also partly correct too because it is experience and sukriti which builds that intial faith in scripture. Nitai!

 

[Aupmanyav]

OK, where do I find information on Nitai? Vedas, Aranyakas, Brahmanas, Upanishads, Puranas or Smritis?

 

[निताइ dasa]

OK, where do I find information on Nitai? Vedas, Aranyakas, Brahmanas, Upanishads, Puranas or Smritis?

By the proof of Gauranga Mahaprabhu, Nitai is also proved.I have given sufficient evidence from Smriti in my previous post regarding the authenticity of Lord Gaurahari. Nitai's presence is rarer, but He can be found in Vayu Purana

balaramo mamaivamsah, so 'pi mat-prstham esyati;
nityananda iti khyato nyasi-cudamanih ksitau

"Lord Balarama, who is My first expansion and non-different from Me will also appear by My side as Lord Shri Nityananda. He will become the crest jewel of all renunciants on the earth."

krtvavadhuta-vesam sa, dharman bhagavatan bahun;
grahayitva janan ittham grhinam asramam tatah.

"Assuming the dress of an avadhuta, He will freely distribute bhagavata dharma i.e. love of God. He will distribute this pure love through various means and deliver all the living entities. He will do so first as a brahmacari and later as a householder."

jahnavy-adibhir atmanam, darsayisyati manavan.

"Accompanied by His eternal consort Shrimati Jahnavi-devi and many other intimate associates, He (Nityananda) will reveal His transcendental pastimes to the people."

Anyway, the scriptures that prove Lord Gauranga also prove the divinity of Lord Nityananda. Just like the proof for Sri Rama also proves the presence of His brother, Lakshman. No separate proof is needed. However it should also be known, that like Gauranga, Nitai is also a channa avatar. Therefore the full descriptions of His pastimes were only made manifest after He was present on earth. These can be found in Chaitanya Bhagavata and Nityananda Charitamrta, which hold Sastra status for us Gaudiyas. Nitai!

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Terese ji

Scripture is secondary. Experience/individual knowledge is best to realise the Lord. Scripture gives us that push.

please do not forget that scripture or true sastra is either divine in origin or is a tretise upon divine revalation or divine lila , therefore the escence is nondifferent from the lord himself , knowing this ne realises that there is nothing which is not the mercy of the lord or of his uttma adhikari (higest realised devotee) , ..sastra is either divine instruction , or a revealed science , ...as it is part and parcel of the lord it is nondifferent fom the lords Darshan .

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Nah, they have been termed tamasic by Veda Vyasa, Adi Shankara, Madhva, Ramanuja and every other self-respecting Vedantin.

No such claim was made by Shankara. This has already been discussed earlier on a different thread. Kindly refrain from spreading falsities - specifically, Sri-Vaishnava interpretations of Shankara's religious inclinations and his supposed view of Purana classifications and the like.

Thanks,

 

[ratikala]

jai jai

The absolute Truth however is perfect and complete, it cannot be grasped on the basis of human experience alone.

thus sravanam , ...hearing from the lips of a pure devotee , and kirtanam reciting the glories , and smaranam remembering , ...clenses the mind of mental impurities, ...

without this process the absolute tattva canot be relished , ....

 

[shivsomashekhar]

By the proof of Gauranga Mahaprabhu, Nitai is also proved.I have given sufficient evidence from Smriti in my previous post regarding the authenticity of Lord Gaurahari. Nitai's presence is rarer, but He can be found in Vayu Purana

balaramo mamaivamsah, so 'pi mat-prstham esyati;
nityananda iti khyato nyasi-cudamanih ksitau

Do you have specific verse numbers? Else, this does not amount to much on a general discussion forum.

The natural question is, why did none of the well known Vaishnavas such as Madhva and Ramanuja fail to make note of *any* of these verses. That considerably weakens any claims of avatar-hood found in standard scripture.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram @Terese ji

to illustrate that shastra in its writen form is non different to the spoken word of the pure devotee , ...upanisaid means sit ''down at the feet '' ...this refers to taking instruction or hearing sublime lila directly from the spiritual master , ..the pure devotee .

 

[Aupmanyav]

OK, where do I find information on Nitai or even ..? Vedas, Aranyakas, Brahmanas, Upanishads, Puranas or Smritis? To term some one as a 'Maha Purush' or as 'Bhagawan' is different. Let us stick to what the scriptures say. Or accept advaita, in which case everyone is none other than 'Sri Hari' or 'Shiva'. I think that settles the matter in all cases for all times.

 

[kalyan]

Do you have specific verse numbers? Else, this does not amount to much on a general discussion forum.

The natural question is, why did none of the well known Vaishnavas such as Madhva and Ramanuja fail to make note of *any* of these verses. That considerably weakens any claims of avatar-hood found in standard scripture.

You have a point....The verses could just mention even nithya ananda as a term and not specifically a person and vayu purana is not in any of 18 puranas and is not a valid authority at all is what I feel but I have full respect for Gauranga as well..I want to know about his works rather than arguments

 

[निताइ dasa]

Do you have specific verse numbers? Else, this does not amount to much on a general discussion forum.

The natural question is, why did none of the well known Vaishnavas such as Madhva and Ramanuja fail to make note of *any* of these verses. That considerably weakens any claims of avatar-hood found in standard scripture.

Thank you for your interest. I will give an answer according to our siddhanta, regarding the authencity of Lord Nitai Gaur.
The main verse that establishes this incarnation can be found in two places in Srimad Bhagavatam. Namely Srimad Bhagavatam 11.5.32 and Bhagavatam. 7.9.38. In Visnu Sahasra Nama in Mahabharata, Lord Chaitanya is also predicted as:

"suvarna-varno hemango
varangas candanangadi
sannyasa-krc chamah santo
nistha-santi-paryana"

The Lord (in the incarnation of Gauranga) has a golden complexion. Indeed, His entire body, is like molten gold. Sandalwood pulp is smeared all over His body. He will take sannyasa and will be very self-controlled.” (Mahabharata, Visnu-sahasra-nama-stotra names 575-585)

The "Mahanprabhu" in Svetasvatara Upanisad 3.12 and "Rukma Varnam" in Mundaka 3.1.3 we also take to refer to Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu (one whose limbs are golden). Now the reason why this incarnation was not mentioned by well known Vaishnavs like Madhva and Ramanuja is given in Srimad Bhagavatam itself:

"channah kalau yad abhavas tri-yugo ’tha sa tvam"
"You appear in a hidden incarnation in Kaliyuga (channa kalau) therefore you are known as tri yuga. SB 7.9.38

Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is a covered incarnation, therefore the vast portion of the shastric proofs from the Puranas were only revealed by the Goswamis (namely Jiva Goswami) after His appearance on earth. When the verses are quoted by them in their commentaries, an actual verse number isn't given, but still we regard them as authentic because they agree with SB and also because they are quoted by our Goswamis, who hold an Acharaya position for us. For the Goswamis to make up verses is both against their exalted character, and also not logical in a academic environment that they wrote their books. Even Madhav quotes many verse which cannot be found in current manuscripts but still we accept the, because we have faith in his words. Yes the basis of the claim is in SB 11.5.32, and Jiva Goswami in his Krama Sandarbha writes a extensive commentary in this, estsblishing his translation as per the rules of Sanskrit grammar. For their other extensive proofs, please see: http://gosai.com/writings/the-divinity-of-sri-caitanya-mahaprabhu-0

And this Is only Shastric proof, we must also consider the fact that thousands of personalities (some who were very learned in Vedanta) accepted Him as God.

 

[निताइ dasa]

OK, where do I find information on Nitai or even ..? Vedas, Aranyakas, Brahmanas, Upanishads, Puranas or Smritis? To term some one as a 'Maha Purush' or as 'Bhagawan' is different. Let us stick to what the scriptures say. Or accept advaita, in which case everyone is none other than 'Sri Hari' or 'Shiva'. I think that settles the matter in all cases for all times.

I think I have given sufficient evidence in my previous threads regarding Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Please see the comment previous to this one

 

[kalyan]

By the proof of Gauranga Mahaprabhu, Nitai is also proved.I have given sufficient evidence from Smriti in my previous post regarding the authenticity of Lord Gaurahari. Nitai's presence is rarer, but He can be found in Vayu Purana

balaramo mamaivamsah, so 'pi mat-prstham esyati;
nityananda iti khyato nyasi-cudamanih ksitau

"Lord Balarama, who is My first expansion and non-different from Me will also appear by My side as Lord Shri Nityananda. He will become the crest jewel of all renunciants on the earth."

krtvavadhuta-vesam sa, dharman bhagavatan bahun;
grahayitva janan ittham grhinam asramam tatah.

"Assuming the dress of an avadhuta, He will freely distribute bhagavata dharma i.e. love of God. He will distribute this pure love through various means and deliver all the living entities. He will do so first as a brahmacari and later as a householder."

jahnavy-adibhir atmanam, darsayisyati manavan.

"Accompanied by His eternal consort Shrimati Jahnavi-devi and many other intimate associates, He (Nityananda) will reveal His transcendental pastimes to the people."

Anyway, the scriptures that prove Lord Gauranga also prove the divinity of Lord Nityananda. Just like the proof for Sri Rama also proves the presence of His brother, Lakshman. No separate proof is needed. However it should also be known, that like Gauranga, Nitai is also a channa avatar. Therefore the full descriptions of His pastimes were only made manifest after He was present on earth. These can be found in Chaitanya Bhagavata and Nityananda Charitamrta, which hold Sastra status for us Gaudiyas. Nitai!

Hi Nitai,
Can you post about Shree Gauranga teachings in a separate thread perhaps.....Like his works or the commentaries etc....

 

[kalyan]

In Visnu Sahasra Nama in Mahabharata, Lord Chaitanya is also predicted as:

"suvarna-varno hemango
varangas candanangadi
sannyasa-krc chamah santo
nistha-santi-paryana"

I have to disagree with you here nitai...VSN does not predict anything. It is 1000 names of Sri Maha Vishnu given by Bhishma....Each and every word describes Sri Maha VishNu ALONE.......

 

[निताइ dasa]

Hi Nitai,
Can you post about Shree Gauranga teachings in a separate thread perhaps.....Like his works or the commentaries etc....

Nitai! I am Nitai das, prabhuji, not Nitai. I am but His humble servant. I have already started another thread, If you want I can post some of His teachings, and also of the Goswamis. If you have any other queries please post them there.

 

[निताइ dasa]

I have to disagree with you here nitai...VSN does not predict anything. It is 1000 names of Sri Maha Vishnu given by Bhishma....Each and every word describes Sri Maha VishNu ALONE.......

Yes, and we respect your opinion, as that was what your Acharayas have said. I also have to uphold what my Guru Parampara has said, In response to your statement. In the Visnu Saharasnama, one can find names like Vasudevo and Govinda, which are names of Sri Krsna. The names of Avatars can also appear, because they are non-different from Maha Visnu (in our humble opinion). Of course you are equally right too.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram kalyan ji

You have a point....The verses could just mention even nithya ananda as a term and not specifically a person and vayu purana is not in any of 18 puranas and is not a valid authority at all is what I feel but I have full respect for Gauranga as well..I want to know about his works rather than arguments

l do not wish even to enter into conversation as to the possibility of ''nithya ananda being a term'' rather than refering to the person , ...as it verges upon being an apradha, ...
but as you say you have ''full respect for Gauranga''and wish to know his works l can recomend that you read 'Sri Siksastakam' ....the entirity l can post here as it is only eight verses long , ....

plese enjoy in a devotional mood , ...


Sri Siksastakam

1
ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaḿ
śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaḿ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaḿ prati-padaḿ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaḿ
sarvātma-snapanaḿ paraḿ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-sańkīrtanam

Translation

Glory to the Sri Krishna sankirtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sankirtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious.


2
nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis
tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavan mamāpi
durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ

Translation

O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Krishna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by chanting Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them.


3
tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

Translation

One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.


4
na dhanaḿ na janaḿ na sundarīḿ
kavitāḿ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye
mama janmani janmanīśvare
bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

Translation

O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth.


5
ayi nanda-tanūja kińkaraḿ
patitaḿ māḿ viṣame bhavāmbudhau
kṛpayā tava pāda-pańkaja-
sthita-dhūlī-sadṛśaḿ vicintaya

Translation

O son of Maharaja Nanda (Krishna), I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms of Your lotus feet.


6
nayanaḿ galad-aśru-dhārayā
vadanaḿ gadgada-ruddhayā girā
pulakair nicitaḿ vapuḥ kadā
tava nāma-grahaṇe bhaviṣyati

Translation

O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs on my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?


7
yugāyitaḿ nimeṣeṇa
cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
śūnyāyitaḿ jagat sarvaḿ
govinda-viraheṇa me

Translation

O Govinda! Feeling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence.


8
āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāḿ pinaṣṭu mām
adarśanān marma-hatāḿ karotu vā
yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo
mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ

Translation
I know no one but Krishna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly in His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally.

9
prabhura ‘śikṣāṣṭaka’-śloka yei paḍe, śune
kṛṣṇe prema-bhakti tāra bāḍe dine-dine

Translation

If anyone recites or hears these eight verses of instruction by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, their ecstatic love and devotion for Krsna increases day by day. ......(verse 9 the additional dedication added to the translation by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)

if you would like to discuss more please join in discussion http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...eries-and-discussion-thread.182663/#post-4549

 

[Chakra]

No such claim was made by Shankara. This has already been discussed earlier on a different thread. Kindly refrain from spreading falsities - specifically, Sri-Vaishnava interpretations of Shankara's religious inclinations and his supposed view of Purana classifications and the like.

Thanks,

Your point of view hasn't been concluded, but okay, I shall desist. Sorry.