Man of Faith
Well-Known Member
He should have pointed out that the Bible outlines the creation of the world in 6 literal days. That alone precludes anything other than a 6 literal day creation.
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No Evidence for Speciation?
- Thread starter CynthiaCypher
- Start date
He should have pointed out that the Bible outlines the creation of the world in 6 literal days. That alone precludes anything other than a 6 literal day creation.
Explanation: 6 days for God is an eternity for man.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Really?
Where does the Bible state that the six days in Genesis is six 24 hour periods?
gnostic
The Lost One
I don't think evolution is only about speciation only.
While it is true that one creature cannot produce offspring with a creature of another species, evolution is also study of small changes, as well as that of large ones. It is about biologically adapting as much as speciation.
While it is true that one creature cannot produce offspring with a creature of another species, evolution is also study of small changes, as well as that of large ones. It is about biologically adapting as much as speciation.
JustWondering2
Just the facts Ma'am
Only if the Bible is 100% the word of God and 100% literaly true! when in reality it could be the word of God (perhaps) translated by ancient man in terms of the day. I don't think the authors of the Bible could have understood Millions of years little on Billions. Hence the 7 day story: IE something they could relate to. But gee I stopped believing in fairy tales in my teens. I guess your a youngster. I bet you even thought the Flintsons was a documentary right? WILMA!!!
shawn001
Well-Known Member
Man of Faith, let me get this straight, you think the earth was created in six days? Then you want that taught in sciences classes?
So we would have to throw out all of the known fundemental sciences, plate tectonics,gravity, astronomy, cosmology, biology and all others and completely dismiss the entire fossil record, especially geology and what we have obersed and know as facts, that make up scientific theories. We would have to throw out the five mass extintion events on earth. We know the solar system is around 5 billion years old, we know how old the sun and planets are, how they formed by stellar accreation, just like the billions of stars we can see forming right now with the hubble space telescope. We know the elements your made from came from super nova star explaosions billions of years ago. In fact our solar system is recycled material. We have pictures of the universe evolving before ANY stars existed or galaxies.
you might want to watch just this new information on the moon from the new LRO. With craters billions of years old. All of the rocky planets and our moon have massive crater impacts from the formation of the solar system.
How the Moon Evolved - Video Guided Tour
From epic asteroid bombardment and lava flow to man landing on its surface, the Moon has a rich and violent history. The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter is uncovering a treasure trove of knowledge on the past and present state of Luna.
[youtube]TuHasBN-U1c[/youtube]
How the Moon Evolved - Video Guided Tour - YouTube
So what are you talking about the earth was created in six days? That anyone believes this in 2012 is way beyond me and the massive amount of evidence in all the sciences, that can dimiss the earth being created in six days with no problem what so ever.
Do you believe there was a big bang?
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CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
Define "kinds" please.
Just a small correction/addition... interbreeding can go back to the genus level. Tigers and lions, both genus Panthera can interbreed. You get tigons and ligers. Seriously. Liger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Carpenter Rabbi
Member
I think thought meant can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. Last I checked, that's how species are separated.
Some hybrids are fertile, some are not Liger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (the fertility section). Mules are not fertile but are given a species name. Could a mutation take place to change the chromosomes and render them fertile? Sure why not, that's one way eveolution occurs. Haldane's rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Many creation beleive not there is no evidence for the speciation of animals, that someone one species of animal cannot in anyway become another species.
But I would like to explain to me how the the mighty fearsome wolf is the same species as the lowly and annoying chihuahua?
There is no way that those two animals are the same specie, just look at them. They are obviously so different that we have to construe them as totally different species and that the chihuahua is evidence that speciation is true.
this is an example of how each 'kind' can produce a wide variety within its own family. The wolf and chihuahua are the same 'kind'...they are both canines...but they differ dramatically because that is what genetics is designed to do...it is designed to create variety.
I believe that when scientists see animals change over time, what they are actually seeing is the variety that can exist within a family group. But where i draw the line in terms of evolution is that those family groups do not morph into each other.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Can you show where Genesis says that every breed was created in the beginning? And by 'breed' are you meaning dog breeds? or do you mean different species of animal???
shawn001
Well-Known Member
Its not up to you to draw a line, its where the science takes the facts. As I posted right before here, we have evolution from before any stars existed at all to the evolution of the universe and world today. You left out a bunch of facts on evolution completely here, like mass extintion events and how our solar system and planet formed. The fact the one of if not the oldest fossils we have are of cynobacteria that evolved photosynthesis and why your now breathing oxygen.
They maybe canines and because we have breed modern "dogs" into a new speicies.
They are still mammals and we know the evolution of mammal from reptiles.
So Pegg, what are these animals?
Pelycosaurs, Archosaurs and Therapsids
That lived for hundreds of millions of years before the dinosaurs who lived for 180 million years and went extint. They evolved into the dinosaurs and then they went extint. Then mammals like us evolved.
johnhanks
Well-Known Member
You, of course, are free to draw lines wherever you like. But by what mechanism do you propose nature draws these lines?
For example, it's standard evolutionary theory that the earliest amphibians evolved from lobe-finned fish; you would, I assume, dispute this as a transgression of what you think are uncrossable boundaries between 'kinds'. Now the fish ancestor would have its development from egg to adult controlled by its genome - a long string of A, T, C and G DNA nucleotides. The amphibian descendant develops into a different adult form because it has a different string of A, T, C and G nucleotides in its genome. So what I'm asking is this: what barrier are you proposing that prevents any given ATCG etc nucleotide chain from changing, step by step, into any other?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the line is drawn at the reproductive stage. You cannot successfully cross a horse and cow, or a dog and cat, or a chicken and squirrel
This is because each 'kind' can only reproduce with those of the same 'kind' as God gave them the directive:
Genesis 1:21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.
These animals were able to multiply with other like 'kinds'... this is why a lion can reproduce with a tiger and a horse can reproduce with a donkey for example.
basic kinds of living things are found to be remarkably stable, fish produce fish and lizards produce lizards. The most intensive breeding experiments cannot push them beyond a certain point. When they go too far, they reach the boundary of sterility.
The only real evidence of change is the evidence of genetic variation WITHIN limits of kinds or forms of animals, or WITHIN limits of kinds or forms of plants.
No one ever witnessed a fish become a lizard, or a population of fish change into a different kind of animal as is suggested by evolution. So its is merely speculation that it happened because that is what the theory of evolution predicts will happen.
johnhanks
Well-Known Member
You seem to have confused two kinds of 'line' or 'barrier'. Of course genetic divergence gives rise to barriers on interbreeding; but I was asking you about barriers to genome change over many generations.
Why are you so hung up on breeding experiments? Again, you have massively missed the point. We can write out the genome of a fish as a very long list of As, Cs, Ts and Gs; we can then write out the genome of an amphibian as a different sequence of As, Cs, Ts and Gs. We know that genomes change from generation to generation, as a result of mutation, genetic recombination etc. The question you have completely failed to address is what barrier prevents the fish's ACTG sequence from changing over many generations into the amphibian one.
What is the nature of this mysterious barrier between 'kinds' that you and other creationists are forced to invoke?
It is a good example of how quickly species can diverge. Plants and insects diverge into species much more quickly than mammals because the offspring can reproduce in days. That same example shows how easily apes would have diverged into what we see today and explains why we see so many types of ape/human skulls. The important part for speciation is being able to reproduce. Eventually the differences will make two animals enviable.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
Pegg, you didn't adress my specific questions?
Scientists are working on back engineering a chickens genes to grow a "dinosaur."
Jack Horner: Building a dinosaur from a chicken
"So, in a new approach, he's taking living descendants of the dinosaur (chickens) and genetically engineering them to reactivate ancestral traits including teeth, tails, and even hands to make a "Chickenosaurus".
Jack Horner: Building a dinosaur from a chicken | Video on TED.com
as for humans you would know more about it by reading this state of the art site on human evolution.
Human Evolution by The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
Pegg, what were Homo Erectus,Neanderthals and homo floresiensis?
