This is exactly why I am nontheists. The one thing I am most certain about God is that humans are wrong about nearly everything concerning God.
Tom
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No-MiddleMan Movement: Religion without middlemen
- Thread starter safdar.dushantappeh
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Tom
Aštra’el
Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
By "spiritual-religious attributes" I mean:
-the desire and ability to control, shape or evolve a spiritual-religious system and its effects on one's Weltanschauung or the collective Weltanschauung of a group; the desire and ability to shape and manipulate one's own interior universe, the interior universe of another individual, or the collective interior multiverse of an entire group.
-the passion and desire to reach out and connect to God(s), however one perceives them (theisticly or athiesticly), and to maintain and strengthen that connection, and embrace that connection in a way that exponentially amplifies an individual's or a group's ability to see their goals realized.
(If not "God(s)", then significant wisdom of collective human Nature and the ability to use that wisdom to the advantage of an individual or a group)
-a passion for religion (or a particular spiritual-religious system) and the strength, power, wisdom, and beauty that can be found within its culture
I think it also helps to possess significant prowess in the powers of Creation, a badašš imagination, formidable foresight, and a deep understanding of human Nature.
As you would know yourself and your goals better than I, these are questions that you should probably ask and answer yourself.
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Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
It gets more wierd than that when you think about the problem. If we could determine beyond all doubt that a god exists, how would we ever be able to really know what it's intentions were? From a Christian point of view the reasoning becomes very circular. When you ask them how they know god is not decieving them in the first place, they point to the Bible. When you ask why one should trust that, they said because it is the word of god......which is the very thing you are questioning in the first place.
Blastcat
Active Member
Ok, you HAVE to explain to me how I can "reach out and connect to God(s) ATHEISTICLY... this should be rich...
It may come as a shock to some people, but generally speaking atheists don't believe in gods. Remember that?
chessplayer
Member
Almost 100% of people I know who are Christians , will agree that , without Christ , there is " something " missing , a kind of God shaped space which only knowing Jesus can fill this space.
Free will is paramount in Gods plan for the human race . Without this free will , we would be puppets on a string . Unfortunately most choose badly , but those who do choose to seek God humbly , will experience Him, as it is His desire for you to freely choose Him and so completing the cycle, ASITB
( As Stated In The Bible ) .and in the experience of umpteen millions across the world (150 to 250 million in China alone !
People try to fill that space with a variety of usually damaging things or lifestyles. Drugs, alcohol, porn, greed for wealth ,
Free will is paramount in Gods plan for the human race . Without this free will , we would be puppets on a string . Unfortunately most choose badly , but those who do choose to seek God humbly , will experience Him, as it is His desire for you to freely choose Him and so completing the cycle, ASITB
( As Stated In The Bible ) .and in the experience of umpteen millions across the world (150 to 250 million in China alone !
People try to fill that space with a variety of usually damaging things or lifestyles. Drugs, alcohol, porn, greed for wealth ,
Aštra’el
Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
That is not entirely accurate. Atheists do not believe in the existence of gods as living, conscious external entities. No atheist will argue against gods existing as deific archetypes, recurring religious motifs, symbolic and artistic depictions of nature or human Nature, etc.
Ahhh.....
Almost 100% of Christians believe in the Jesus of legend.
I know that's true. I live in Jesustan. Why would I believe it?
Tom
The Manifestation, His very Being and life and Teachings are the proof that God exists.
Robert Landbeck
Member
I came across something very similar but related specifically to and antithetical towards existing Christian claims. But there is a definite resonance to the NMMM project. But what appears to make this material unique, if not revolutionary is that the underlying claim is TESTABLE by faith! And I'm testing it myself at the moment! Here's sample for anyone interested.
"This act of faith is conceived as a test of the human heart. 'As in the beginning' this teaching defines the very basis for a relationship between God and man, yet without any of the conventional trappings or artifice of tradition. An individual, spiritual virtue ethic, independent of all cultural reference, conventional wisdom or normative perception, and self contained within a single moral command, a universal moral Law, that finds its expression of obedience and purpose within a new Genesis of marriage between one man and one woman. It bypasses all institutional religious frameworks, charismatic charlatans, clerical intrusion, churches or priestcraft; requires no scholastic theological rational, dogma or doctrine, no ones permission or license and stripped of all myth, worship requires only conviction, faith and the necessary self discipline to accomplish a new, single moral imperative, then fidelity to a new divinely created reality." More at The Final Freedoms
"This act of faith is conceived as a test of the human heart. 'As in the beginning' this teaching defines the very basis for a relationship between God and man, yet without any of the conventional trappings or artifice of tradition. An individual, spiritual virtue ethic, independent of all cultural reference, conventional wisdom or normative perception, and self contained within a single moral command, a universal moral Law, that finds its expression of obedience and purpose within a new Genesis of marriage between one man and one woman. It bypasses all institutional religious frameworks, charismatic charlatans, clerical intrusion, churches or priestcraft; requires no scholastic theological rational, dogma or doctrine, no ones permission or license and stripped of all myth, worship requires only conviction, faith and the necessary self discipline to accomplish a new, single moral imperative, then fidelity to a new divinely created reality." More at The Final Freedoms
soma
John Kuykendall
As a Christian I think many Christians would benefit from this site. Drawing upon the invisible forces of unity we feel the oneness and see that responsibility, decision-making and optimism all flow together in one universal consciousness, where God is an obvious reality. When a deep awareness of unity is established, we benefit tremendously physically, mentally and spiritually because the habit of being positive is acquired, and God is no longer a closed concept, but an infinite vast always present consciousness. The Christian institution with its political leanings will no longer be able to manipulate people with their lies and deceit.
Parchment
Active Member
Sounds like a softball way of pitching a religion when the hard line approach doesn't work, whether or not there is a velvet glove on the iron fist there is still an iron fist in there somewhere.
I'd say just about every religion begins this way (noble intentions) but over time as it becomes more organised it is institutionalised, often to the point of veering off course from the original "manifesto".
The thing to notice however is not the exact movements per ce, but rather the general direction that people are seeking. Religion evolves, and what sticks is usually a sign of what the people wanted or even needed.
A huge step in our time period could be described as a crying out for distinction and recognition of this personal uniqueness / interpretation of life. To me, any movement to this effect is beneficial (such as the group being discussed), so long as it doesn't promote licence for selfishness.
3 steps forward and 1 back is better than nothing.
meghanwaterlillies
Well-Known Member
meghanwaterlillies
Well-Known Member
I don't mix salvation with this too much...Because that's not for them to decide but they will try to decide in their minds. I believe Jesus is God so z.
1.
How dare you dis Pocahontas.
2. All is cute until they see what a freeman does without asking for a dime sometimes with his money or just deeds in general and many do that or what if he does need it? Anyways, it's good until someone starts hyjacking it turning that idea into big profits that really aren't super charitable or aggressive while some are trying to be legit. Anyways, when the free man (I mean anyone really) can do it and without being guided of judges, and sometimes they just do it!!
3. Some really have done good deeds and have no desire to be seen by men to get credit for it.
4. Have you heard the song stuck in the middle with you? You might like it.
5. Technically, by stating no middle man and it's your idea, you are a middle man now in this belief. I do like good deeds but I wouldn't use it just for brownie points. Even though it's encouraging like Dora the explorer and fun sometimes.
But really that makes you more of a middle man to that belief. I no what middle man is and I've been there and it comes from this sort of idea it isn't really new. But that makes you actually a middle man in reality when you realize that's what you are implying your idea is it. Don't worry water boy says you can do it.
1.
How dare you dis Pocahontas.2. All is cute until they see what a freeman does without asking for a dime sometimes with his money or just deeds in general and many do that or what if he does need it? Anyways, it's good until someone starts hyjacking it turning that idea into big profits that really aren't super charitable or aggressive while some are trying to be legit. Anyways, when the free man (I mean anyone really) can do it and without being guided of judges, and sometimes they just do it!!
3. Some really have done good deeds and have no desire to be seen by men to get credit for it.
4. Have you heard the song stuck in the middle with you? You might like it.
5. Technically, by stating no middle man and it's your idea, you are a middle man now in this belief. I do like good deeds but I wouldn't use it just for brownie points. Even though it's encouraging like Dora the explorer and fun sometimes.
But really that makes you more of a middle man to that belief. I no what middle man is and I've been there and it comes from this sort of idea it isn't really new. But that makes you actually a middle man in reality when you realize that's what you are implying your idea is it. Don't worry water boy says you can do it.
The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.
idolatry is forbidden. Don't let basket case cover your light.
Like a parent to a child, you give them the skills and they become masters of the great work. One should step out of the Way, lest they cause a little one to trip and fall. The elder simply points it out and the youngster grasps it herself.
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arthra
Baha'i
I think it's alright to have a stage in your development where you are seeking and exploring your own spiritual qualities to sometimes step outside the religious confines and look around.... In terms of growth however when you're alone you'll need to find some standards or markers for your spiritual development. By that I mean you keep moving your goal posts and expect to grow spiritually so eventually in your seeking you will likely find a more obvious treasure of truth and once found you'll be delighted and happy with it. I found such a truth back in the sixties ... It confirmed much of what I was already doing in the Peace movement and the civil rights movement and also provided more guidance in my life. I owe it a great deal... As a Baha'i we have no priests... no ministers and no theologians. Our administration is democratic and we have no political parties. We're open to all religions...
The thing I like about the manifesto of this group is the distancing of itself from "creedism" or/and theology. In this day and age people don't care about religion unless it's what they were raised with. Other than when someone dies or a personal disaster of some type afflicts the individual, they aren't very interested in what "God XYZ" has to say.
However, do something for someone without expecting anything in return (not necessarily money, simply a pure regard for their wellbeing, for example) and suddenly they will be interested. This is why any group with the premise of service to others will have a wider appeal, and in my opinion is what a religion should centre upon.
However, do something for someone without expecting anything in return (not necessarily money, simply a pure regard for their wellbeing, for example) and suddenly they will be interested. This is why any group with the premise of service to others will have a wider appeal, and in my opinion is what a religion should centre upon.
safdar.dushantappeh
simpleislam.weebly.com
Culture is itself almost always THE problem. What you describe as beautiful, is the same thing that brainwash one from birth, and is the same thing that makes one ignore reason under the influence of peer pressure. Culture reminds me this verse from Quran:
"And when they commit an indecency, they say, “We found our parents doing this, and God has commanded us to do it.” Say, “God does not command indecencies. Are you attributing to God what you do not know?” (7:28)"
Can we have Philosophy without Philosophers?!!
safdar.dushantappeh
simpleislam.weebly.com
Philosophy is the product of Philosophers. Religions on the other hand is not the product of the middlemen (scholars, gurus. churches, rabbis, ...); it existed before they were born and will continue existing without them.