No one should believe in evolution!

[Thaif]

You actually agree that abio is not a "core tenet" or even part of ToE? That is encouraging!
You did not acknowledge though that science does not do proof..

I'm sorry, I don't understand this last sentence?

That whole "once of, never etc", what is that all about?
Whose Idea is that? Seems very improbable that there is not life elsewhere. "Inevitable" would be more likely.

Is as I say, there is zero proof or evidence, scientific or otherwise that abiogenesis on this planet may have happened more than once. But hey, feel free to believe in space alien peoples.

I also said that whatever your source for your ill informed
opinions is either totally ignorant, or is deliberately spreading falsehoods.

I read a bit, you know, books that aren't web blogs. Amazon loves me.

You did not respond to these things, but went off in another direction. I will discuss your mistaken ideas about ToE,

Once again, I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

I don't want to talk about whether researchers are human with human faults, which is self evident anyway.

We, I think, rely on learned scientists to show and prove the realities of the physical universe, they really aren't allowed to have faults :-} Sorry, I placed a quote you missed in don't.

 

[Thaif]

The only alternatives to abiogenesis and evolution is GodDidIt. You didn't have to explicitly mention god to make it clear that your belief is GodDidIt.

Not true, life might have spontaneously some into existence, like the big bang where everythi

Why do you only pick someone with a "PhD" who agrees with you?

I know plenty of people with advanced degrees, and that,
plus some data, will get you a Starbux.

Not sure what you mean here, Douglas Theobald is probably the last person who might agree with anything I have to say, unless you are any evolution, I might suggest he is on your side, have you even read any of his works? Oh, wait, are you on my side and are disagreeing with ecco??

 

[Audie]

I'm sorry, I don't understand this last sentence?


Is as I say, there is zero proof or evidence, scientific or otherwise that abiogenesis on this planet may have happened more than once. But hey, feel free to believe in space alien peoples.


I read a bit, you know, books that aren't web blogs. Amazon loves me.


Once again, I'm not sure what you are getting at here.


We, I think, rely on learned scientists to show and prove the realities of the physical universe, they really aren't allowed to have faults :-} Sorry, I placed a quote you missed in don't.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this last sentence?

Science works with probabilities, not proof.

True there is no evidence of life elsewhere. But, there
are probabilities. In any case, so what?

"you did not respond to these things" means, I asked something,
or stated something you had wrong, and you ignored it, went off on other things.

"prove the realities of the physical universe, they really aren't allowed to have faults"

You are talking complete rubbish here, if it is some sort of sarcasm, I cant tell, nor what it is supposed to mean. Try just saying what you mean.

 

[Audie]

Not true, life might have spontaneously some into existence, like the big bang where everythi

Not sure what you mean here, Douglas Theobald is probably the last person who might agree with anything I have to say, unless you are any evolution, I might suggest he is on your side, have you even read any of his works? Oh, wait, are you on my side and are disagreeing with ecco??

It is easy to misread you, as your writing is a bit undisciplined.

However, as a rule, what I said is so, a PhD is of no interest or
value unless accompanied by some data. That is why things like
lists of scientists who are creationists, for example, is pointless.
None of them have anything but an opinion. They sure dont have
any Nobel for disproving ToE.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I'm looking for just one example, I don't see it there, point me to it if I missed it

One such test is found in my thread on ERVs.

ERVs: Evidence for the Origin of Humans

But what do you think, personally, is the very best example of macro evolution ever empirically observed?

The fossil hominids which you try to ignore.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Darn it, 29 evidences and the text actually says 30, and the guy is a PHD which trumps anything I have by miles and also, he posts references galore, I'll get back to you on this, I'm about to go on a few weeks leave but watch this space, I'm not the kind of guy who whimpers away at a challenge. He has a crummy website, there is hope.

One of those tests on that website is ERVs which I discuss in another thread if you are interested. The post above mine should have the link.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Okay, I'm going to redact that, you are correct, abiogenesis is probably a once off, maybe never to be repeated event and perhaps never replicated anywhere in the universe, and while I have my thoughts about whether certain scientists have tenets, maybe not religious in the strictest sense, I'll go along with saying there are a number of scientists who hold firm to an idea, even when that idea has been peer proven to be false. Would you like some examples of that?

The important point is that abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution. If God created a simple bacteria which went on to evolve into all of the species we see today it wouldn't change the theory of evolution one iota. To use another example, scientists don't have to explain the origin of life in order to determine that germs cause disease. I have yet to see anyone claim that you can't know anything about infectious diseases unless you explain the origin of germs first. You can explain proximal causes without needing to know their ultimate origins.

 

[Audie]

The important point is that abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution. If God created a simple bacteria which went on to evolve into all of the species we see today it wouldn't change the theory of evolution one iota. To use another example, scientists don't have to explain the origin of life in order to determine that germs cause disease. I have yet to see anyone claim that you can't know anything about infectious diseases unless you explain the origin of germs first. You can explain proximal causes without needing to know their ultimate origins.

No more than we need to know about the origin of the universe in order to learn the principles of chemistry, or, auto mechanics.

 

[Audie]

One such test is found in my thread on ERVs.

ERVs: Evidence for the Origin of Humans



The fossil hominids which you try to ignore.

We still await from the creationists one fact that is contrary to ToE

 

[ecco]

The only alternatives to abiogenesis and evolution is GodDidIt. You didn't have to explicitly mention god to make it clear that your belief is GodDidIt.

Not true, life might have spontaneously some into existence, like the big bang where everythi

When you say "life might have spontaneously come into existence" are you saying abiogenesis?

I thought you didn't believe in abiogenesis.

 

[Baroodi]

You could ask this about a god, not about evolution.

If you believe in god(s) then you can ask, why would a perfect god make imperfect people.

If you believe in, and understand, evolution, then you would know evolution isn't about perfection, it's about "good enough".

God already did as usual. Perfect creation, human creation is nothing compared to the vast universe

 

[Baroodi]

Come on, that is what he's saying, he doesnt get it!
Does not call for a put.-down.

 

[Baroodi]

Because evolution is not magic, it works slowly over many generations

Ok


Why apes are still apes after all defunct so many generations? why humans physics getting smaller?

 

[Baroodi]

Why do you think that evolution would correct such defects? Your appear not to understand the concept.

It is all wrong even the concept
where is adaptability from the theory?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Why apes are still apes after all defunct so many generations? why humans physics getting smaller?

Humans are apes in the same way that Chihuahuas are still dogs.

Hominidae

 

[Audie]

Ok


Why apes are still apes after all defunct so many generations? why humans physics getting smaller?

You sure you mean "defunct"? That means dead.

For "why still" try this simple concept: "if it aint broke, dont
fix it."

Being apes works fine for them. Works fine for us too,
people, you know, being a species of ape.

Human physics getting smaller?

Human "physique" is getting bigger. Mostly because of diet.

You could use some quiet study time in a library.

 

[Audie]

It is all wrong even the concept
where is adaptability from the theory?

You may have a good question here but I do not think
anybody understands what you are trying to say.

 

[nPeace]

I am of the firm opinion that no one should ever believe in evolution. Belief is based of placing faith in something. Evolution is a scientific theory. No should ever accept a scientific theory by faith. One can believe in many things properly, such as the innate value of people, or that your favorite sports team is the greatest. But scientific theories aren’t like those. Scientific theories can be accepted as correct, or assented to, or tested and verified, or a host of other empirical and scientific actions. But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

Whenever I encounter someone that says they believe in evolution I roll my eyes metaphorically and think to myself that here is someone that lacks a genuine understanding of evolution and science.

I will now don my asbestos suit and await comments.

I think man will always believe in something, because although some things can be known, man can never absolutely know all things. I think if one believes in Evolution, he rightly does so (not saying it is right to believe it) based on the fact that nothing about the theory can be verified absolutely.

 

[ChristineM]

Ok


Why apes are still apes after all defunct so many generations? why humans physics getting smaller?

You don't now much about the evolutionary process do you? christians exist why are there still jews?

Ok .Humour over if you really want to learn i can help you with some resources, but i won't waste my time on lost causes.

Apes have evolved too. Note, no one says we come from apes but from a common ape like ancestor.

And what has size to do with anything? Many dinosaurs were huge, their predecessors, birds are much smaller.

Lets discuss the biggest humans, cro-magnon. Fully human, they were larger than modern humans, bulkier skeleton, bigger heads, larger brains. It is understood that evolution had changed us because we have different lifestyle exercise, going to the shops instead of hunting, throwing spears etc.

Hope this helps

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok


Why apes are still apes after all defunct so many generations? why humans physics getting smaller?

Apes are still apes because you once an organism is in a clade all of its offspring are in that clade. Pointing out that people are apes is only acknowledging the fact that the ancestor that we share with other apes would be called an ape too:

Cladistics - Wikipedia

The fact that humans are apes became obvious once we could analyze DNA. The closest relation to chimps and bonobos are humans. It makes no sense for them to be apes and more closely related to us than they are to gorillas and for us not to be apes.