No Space Beyond Universe?

[Valjean]

If space exists how can it be beyond existence?
Don't make the mistake of judging Reality by your own experience of the world.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

But it is still existing in something. If there was nothing then there would be nothing or no where for a vacuum to exist. The idea of nothingness isn't something humans (or myself anyway) can easily comprehend.

That's what I was trying to say, nothingness can't exist beyond the universe, possibly infinite vacuum, but not nothingness.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If space exists how can it be beyond existence?

I can see how it's possible, but to answer the answer you want you must first tell me why you think it can't.

 

[Storm]

Define "something".

If what we know within our universe is defined by matter/energy and space/time, then how can we even define that which is not bound by the known laws of matter/energy and space/time?

Yes, the universe has boundaries. The evidence for the Big Bang event is conclusive, possibly irrefutable, thus time and space have a beginning within the Singularity.
This indicates that because the Universe/Singularity is expanding, and space/time and matter energy are contained within the Universe/Singularity, that there must be a boundary, or an end of space/time. But "beyond" the universe is as meaningless as "before" time.

There's a difference between "space," "time," and "spacetime."

dust1n and tumbleweed41 answered this I think but the short answer is no it doesn't

Then it's nonsensical to speculate about the "shape" of the universe.

 

[Father Heathen]

But it is still existing in something.

But nothing isn't existing, hence it's a vacuum. But if it has to, for some reason, "exist" in something, then that something must also have to exist in something. Do you see the universe as a some sort of endless matryoshka doll?

 

[tumbleweed41]

There's a difference between "space," "time," and "spacetime."

Just as there is a difference between "length", "width", "depth" and "space". Yet all three of the former make up the whole of the later. The physical Universe in which we live, excluding "time". Space/time includes "time" in the equation as an all inclusive description of the physical Universe.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Then it's nonsensical to speculate about the "shape" of the universe.

Not necessarily, because within the Universe we have space and time to measure the "shape" of the universe based on the origins of the Universe.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

But nothing isn't existing, hence it's a vacuum. But if it has to, for some reason, "exist" in something, then that something must also have to exist in something. Do you see the universe as a some sort of endless matryoshka doll?

Why couldn't it just be infinite vacuum beyond the universe which could just be random bunches of matter expanding within the vacuum?

 

[Father Heathen]

Why couldn't it just be infinite vacuum beyond the universe which could just be random bunches of matter expanding within the vacuum?

"beyond the universe" sounds silly given that the universe is infinite and all encompassing.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

"beyond the universe" sounds silly given that the universe is infinite and all encompassing.

Very true, but I was speaking of the matter that was expanding by the universe, the vacuum in the universe isn't really part of the universe, but probably extends from the outside.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Very true, but I was speaking of the matter that was expanding by the universe, the vacuum in the universe isn't really part of the universe, but probably extends from the outside.

Can science prove a vaccuum actually exists. I understand that dark energy/zero point energy is omnipresent?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Didn't the singularity take up space?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Who knows, but the vacuum of space that science once believed in and taught turns out not to be a vacuum as far as I presently understand it.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Didn't the singularity take up space?

No, the singularity contains space.

 

[TheArcticSage]

saying there's no space beyond the universe is a little narrow minded, I mean that would be like saying the earth is flat and you'll fall off of it. The universe might be finite, but the cosmos is infinite, this means there are many universes beyond our own... an infinite multitude in fact.

 

[A Troubled Man]

Proof?

Space defined is usually the distance between (two) objects. So, there would have to be some relevant objects beyond the universe in order for there to be space.

Perhaps, "void" is the word you're looking for?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I take this as being metaphorical in regards to "space" beyond the observable.

 

[Sir Doom]

As I understand it, our universe contains 3 spacial dimensions (possibly more, but lets stick with three for now). Those 3 dimensions are linked to one another in such a way as to create volume or space. Without all 3 dimensions doing this volume disappears as does space. Before the big bang happened, these 3 dimensions were not linked at all. They did not come together to create volume or space. They didn't come together at all.

I assume that outside of our universe (or between us and the next one if you must) the 3 dimensions remain apart and so do not create volume or space.




I think... >.>

 

[bobhikes]

It's humorous they are making new discoveries all the time, changing views on earth where we live. We haven't even left the solar system yet and you are agruing about the universe.

In most of our life times Voyager1 and Voyager2 some say as soon as 2014. Lets see what they find and if they turn science on its head yet again. Then we can argue about the universe.

Voyager 1 Might Leave the Solar System Any Day Now, New Data Says | Popular Science

 

[Ben Dhyan]

As I understand it, our universe contains 3 spacial dimensions (possibly more, but lets stick with three for now). Those 3 dimensions are linked to one another in such a way as to create volume or space. Without all 3 dimensions doing this volume disappears as does space. Before the big bang happened, these 3 dimensions were not linked at all. They did not come together to create volume or space. They didn't come together at all.

I assume that outside of our universe (or between us and the next one if you must) the 3 dimensions remain apart and so do not create volume or space.


I think... >.>

The so called three dimensions of space are abstracted from non-dimensional infinity to serve as concepts representing the three primary directions relative to a point in space. They are mental abstractions and have no real existence outside of mind.