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Stick to it. Converting to Judaism is expensive and would take at least two years; given the expense for me it'd be more like 4. I'm not waiting til I'm nearly 30 to get on with my life. I want to be married before then if I can. I'm not hanging around for stuff.
Thanks so much for sharing your story. It made me feel kind of ashamed and even guilty that I have a religious community with all kinds of social activities and prayer meetings and observances, etc. One would be hard pressed to find a religion more social than my religion, yet I do not even engage with those in my Baha'i community.Or 'Why I Left This Set of Beliefs' by Rival de RF.
I didn't really want to write this, but after being contacted by multiple folks all wondering the same thing I've decided just to go ahead and wrap this up.
I had been a Noahide for four years, after becoming convinced out of Christianity. I understood how, in my opinion, Jesus could not have been the Mashiach according to Tanakh. I couldn't continue in Christianity after this, albeit there were other issues too (deifying a man, the concept of Satan as an evil figure not present in Tanakh, etc.). So I become a Noachide, still being fully convinced of the truth of Judaism and Tanakh. Naturally I'm paraphrasing a lot here, but you get the picture.
Noachidism is the path for those who are not born Jewish but maintain a belief in the truth of Judaism. This is mostly seen in Orthodox circles but not exclusively. Some folks have called it a 'Zionistic religion' and others have said, well, worse things. Suffice it to say, the basic tenets of Noachidism are the Sheva Mitzvot - The Seven Laws.
These also branch out into at least 30 laws but for the time being I'm going to stick with the 7, because they're the basis. This said, according to Orthodox Jewish understanding, the Bnei Noach cannot make a religion for themselves. This is where my problems began.
- Not to worship idols.
- Not to curse God.
- Not to commit murder.
- Not to commit adultery, bestiality, or sexual immorality.
- Not to steal.
- Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
- To establish courts of justice.
This means no holidays and neither can one celebrate non-Jewish holidays. I live in a tiny village with the nearest city a half hour train ride away. So there were no Jewish holidays pour moi, either. I had nothing to celebrate, nor was I allowed to make my own celebrations or join others'. There is no prayerbook (you will be told there is the Brit Olam but this prayerbook did not work for me and many others; it does not come off as anything remotely like a real siddur and it has links to the 'new Sanhedrin', which is problematic for many). There are no rites or rituals, houses of worship, bodies of literature, hymns, or anything one would associate with a religion. You cannot attend a 'Noachide service' (and if you have you have been blessed - these are rare birds) or walk into a Noachide bookshop. There are no fast days; no liturgical calendars or prayer times.
In other words there is nothing religious about Noachidism. It is a set of beliefs, dictated by Jewish authorities, that you abide and nothing more. You cannot fill your home with Noachide art, books, holiday décor or otherwise.
And there is no community to speak of. Chances are, if you become a Noachide it's going to be just you. Just you with no holidays, no rituals, no prayerbooks, no artwork, no literature, no fasts, not anything.
This is the position I found myself in, and I may as well have had no religion at all. The trouble was I was convinced that Judaism is true and as I could not convert (various personal and financial reasons) I was stuck with it. I was also very fundamentalist and wondered, how would I ever find a partner? Raise kids, without exposing them to Christian stuff? How could I live the rest of my life being so lonely? It reached the point where I became dangerously suicidal; I actually went and bought some razor blades to kill myself with. I would fantasise night after night about ending it. I would have whole days lying in bed; I would refuse to eat; I would go whole days doing nothing at all, but feeling numb and miserable.
So something had to give. I talked this out with someone close and I decided not to kill myself, to unfortunately start looking into new religions. I could not go for any other Abrahamic faiths since they all have Jesus and other folks I consider false prophets. I couldn't go for Sikhism as their conception of God and overall approach just doesn't work for me. I couldn't go for any of the European Paganisms as I've never felt close to those faiths - they do not call to me. I've never had any interest in them, nor did they really lend themselves to my theological leanings. This goes for Dharmic faiths, too.
Thus, I went to the only one that had made any sense to me, aside from Judaism, from my childhood and on - ancient Egyptian religion. It lends itself well to certain monotheistic interpretations, wherein one God can be seen as the Creator and others as manifestations of Him, or emanations, or however one sees it. Some may see this as henotheistic or monolatristic, but there it is. So I dived into that and read more about it, coming to the conclusion that this will suit me just fine. It has theological concepts I can grasp, it has lots of literature, it has symbols, things I can decorate my room with, it has rituals, offerings, a liturgical calendar and so on. I suppose I would now be counted among the Cut of Amun-Re, which sees Amun as the transcendent, hidden, penetrative force in the world, who emanates/speaks through other manifestations.
So this isn't me severing myself from Judaism, either. I still love Judaism and Tanakh, but it's not mine.
That caught my eye because that is what I believe; that there is one Creator and many Manifestations. I think it is very important that a religion has theological concepts you can grasp as well as literature. It is primarily the theology that drew me to my religion and I will never run out of things to read. I think that eventually I will start attending social activities after the pandemic dies down. It is still pretty crazy here in the United States right now, not to even mention the social and political unrest!
Of course that is true because Christianity and Islam are the largest religions in the world, so they claim about 55% of the world population. I was curious so I looked on Google and found that there are about 6,000 Baha'is in Britain and as with Baha'is all over the world they have a website and are very organized. https://www.bahai.org.uk/
I hate to sound nosy, but what is it about Jesus that you cannot tolerate? Do you feel this way because of your beliefs in Judaism?
He didn't fit Messianic prophecy, nor does he qualify as a prophet. He didn't do any of the things the Mashiach is meant to do, according to Tanakh.
No, I'm not putting my life on hold for this. As I said, I also had personal issues with the Beit Din (Jewish court) which oversees conversions. It's just not happening.
I fully agree that Jesus was not the Mashiach the Jews were waiting for, but why couldn't Jesus still be a Prophet?
Prophecy had ended 300 years prior according to Jewish understanding, plus Jesus was teaching things contrary to the Torah and setting himself up as some kind of authority (viz., allowing his disciples to break Shabbath; dishonouring his parents; teaching folks to 'drink his blood' etc.).
What if you just identify as a Jew,
Obviously, there would be no way that you could accept Jesus as long as you continue to believe that Judaism is the one true religion, as they believe they are, even though many won't admit it. I mean to say that the Torah is the only valid scripture is the same as saying they are the only true religion from God, so why not just cut to the chase? And the implication of that belief is that only 14 million people in the world have the truth from God. How much logical sense does that make, that if there is a loving God He would allow all but a few select people to be following false religions?
You can't.
Why not?
Not valid according to Orthodox Jewish teaching.
I wonder....people generally don't believe everything
Think of becoming as Jew as akin to moving to a foreign country and becoming naturalised. It's basically like that. There's stuff you need to do and prove.
If you start attending services someplace, must you
Services are in Hebrew, so that's difficult. And no, there are things you can't do, such as:
Or 'Why I Left This Set of Beliefs' by Rival d'RF.
I didn't really want to write this, but after being contacted by multiple folks all wondering the same thing I've decided just to go ahead and wrap this up.
I had been a Noahide for four years, after becoming convinced out of Christianity. I understood how, in my opinion, Jesus could not have been the Mashiach according to Tanakh. I couldn't continue in Christianity after this, albeit there were other issues too (deifying a man, the concept of Satan as an evil figure not present in Tanakh, etc.). So I become a Noachide, still being fully convinced of the truth of Judaism and Tanakh. Naturally I'm paraphrasing a lot here, but you get the picture.
Noachidism is the path for those who are not born Jewish but maintain a belief in the truth of Judaism. This is mostly seen in Orthodox circles but not exclusively. Some folks have called it a 'Zionistic religion' and others have said, well, worse things. Suffice it to say, the basic tenets of Noachidism are the Sheva Mitzvot - The Seven Laws.
These also branch out into at least 30 laws but for the time being I'm going to stick with the 7, because they're the basis. This said, according to Orthodox Jewish understanding, the Bnei Noach cannot make a religion for themselves. This is where my problems began.
- Not to worship idols.
- Not to curse God.
- Not to commit murder.
- Not to commit adultery, bestiality, or sexual immorality.
- Not to steal.
- Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
- To establish courts of justice.
This means no holidays and neither can one celebrate non-Jewish holidays. I live in a tiny village with the nearest city a half hour train ride away. So there were no Jewish holidays pour moi, either. I had nothing to celebrate, nor was I allowed to make my own celebrations or join others'. There is no prayerbook (you will be told there is the Brit Olam but this prayerbook did not work for me and many others; it does not come off as anything remotely like a real siddur and it has links to the 'new Sanhedrin', which is problematic for many). There are no rites or rituals, houses of worship, bodies of literature, hymns, or anything one would associate with a religion. You cannot attend a 'Noachide service' (and if you have you have been blessed - these are rare birds) or walk into a Noachide bookshop. There are no fast days; no liturgical calendars or prayer times.
In other words there is nothing religious about Noachidism. It is a set of beliefs, dictated by Jewish authorities, that you abide and nothing more. You cannot fill your home with Noachide art, books, holiday décor or otherwise.
And there is no community to speak of. Chances are, if you become a Noachide it's going to be just you. Just you with no holidays, no rituals, no prayerbooks, no artwork, no literature, no fasts, not anything.
This is the position I found myself in, and I may as well have had no religion at all. The trouble was I was convinced that Judaism is true and as I could not convert (various personal and financial reasons) I was stuck with it. I was also very fundamentalist and wondered, how would I ever find a partner? Raise kids, without exposing them to Christian stuff? How could I live the rest of my life being so lonely? It reached the point where I became dangerously suicidal; I actually went and bought some razor blades to kill myself with. I would fantasise night after night about ending it. I would have whole days lying in bed; I would refuse to eat; I would go whole days doing nothing at all, but feeling numb and miserable.
So something had to give. I talked this out with someone close and I decided not to kill myself, to unfortunately start looking into new religions. I could not go for any other Abrahamic faiths since they all have Jesus and other folks I consider false prophets. I couldn't go for Sikhism as their conception of God and overall approach just doesn't work for me. I couldn't go for any of the European Paganisms as I've never felt close to those faiths - they do not call to me. I've never had any interest in them, nor did they really lend themselves to my theological leanings. This goes for Dharmic faiths, too.
Thus, I went to the only one that had made any sense to me, aside from Judaism, from my childhood and on - ancient Egyptian religion. It lends itself well to certain monotheistic interpretations, wherein one God can be seen as the Creator and others as manifestations of Him, or emanations, or however one sees it. Some may see this as henotheistic or monolatristic, but there it is. So I dived into that and read more about it, coming to the conclusion that this will suit me just fine. It has theological concepts I can grasp, it has lots of literature, it has symbols, things I can decorate my room with, it has rituals, offerings, a liturgical calendar and so on. I suppose I would now be counted among the Cut of Amun-Re, which sees Amun as the transcendent, hidden, penetrative force in the world, who emanates/speaks through other manifestations.
So this isn't me severing myself from Judaism, either. I still love Judaism and Tanakh, but it's not mine.
I can understand the need for companionship especially spiritual companionship....it is uplifting to share ones beliefs with a "family" of fellow believers.
Can I just ask (out of curiosity) how the ancient Egyptian religion is in any way compatible with the Jewish religion?
But I totally understand your dilemma.Isn't Judaism Abrahamic? Could all the things about Jesus that you reject, possibly be misinterpretations or misunderstandings of the Tanakh requirements for the Messiah? Jesus fulfilled more Messianic prophesies (hundreds of them) than anyone ever has....many of which were out of his control.
