Noah's Arc and the Flood?

[Subduction Zone]

Then do it or show link to where you supposedly think you did.

You forgot Rule Number One. Until you learn what is and what is not evidence you cannot properly demand to see any. I have and occasionally will supply evidence to you at my choosing. Unfortunately you have a history of denying any evidence presented. If you understood the concept of evidence that would be a form of lying on your part. In an attempt to keep you honest you must learn what evidence is so that you do not tell falsehoods accidentally.

 

[Native]

Of course the Tigris and Euphrates are rivers of fertility. The Gilgamesh Epic is far older than the Hebrew flood story.. Its found in Babylon, Sumer, Dilmun and Ras Shamra with no mention of starlight.

Alluvial plains are REAL .. The Fertile Crescent is REAL.

I didn´t say they were/are unreal. I just claim the Global flood Myths to deal with celestial Milky Way River matters and not geographic matters.

 

[joelr]

This is a marvelous website that tries to bring reason into the story.

Where Was Noah’s Flood? | World Events and the Bible
Where Was Noah’s Flood? | World Events and the Biblenoahs-flood
Dec 13, 2019 · In this Bible study, we will discover Noah’s Flood was local, and confined to an enclosed basin. We will identify the potential location of Noah’s Flood. When we think about Noah’s Flood, we have pictures painted in our mind of a catastrophic extinction level event for earth.

Scholarship considers the fllod myth to be most closely related to Epic of Gilamesh but there are hundreds of similar myths in all cultures.
The Gilgamesh flood myth is a flood myth in the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Gilgamesh flood myth - Wikipedia
Gilgamesh’s supposed historical reign is believed to have been approximately 2700 BCE,[2] shortly before the earliest known written stories. The discovery of artifacts associated with Aga and Enmebaragesi of Kish, two other kings named in the stories, has lent credibility to the historical existence of Gilgamesh.[3]

1. 
   Ea leaks the secret plan
   1. Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh a secret story that begins in the old city of Shuruppak on the banks of the Euphrates River.
   2. The "great gods" Anu, Enlil, Ninurta, Ennugi, and Ea were sworn to secrecy about their plan to cause the flood.
   3. But the god Ea (Sumerian god Enki) repeated the plan to Utnapishtim through a reed wall in a reed house.
   4. Ea commanded Utnapishtim to demolish his house and build a boat, regardless of the cost, to keep living beings alive.
   5. The boat must have equal dimensions with corresponding width and length and be covered over like Apsu boats.
   6. Utnapishtim promised to do what Ea commanded.
   7. He asked Ea what he should say to the city elders and the population.
   8. Ea tells him to say that Enlil has rejected him and he can no longer reside in the city or set foot in Enlil's territory.
   9. He should also say that he will go down to the Apsu "to live with my lord Ea".
   10. Note: 'Apsu' can refer to a fresh water marsh near the temple of Ea/Enki at the city of Eridu.[9]
   Building and launching the boat
   1. Carpenters, reed workers, and other people assembled one morning.
   2. [missing lines]
   3. Five days later, Utnapishtim laid out the exterior walls of the boat of 120 cubits.
   4. The sides of the superstructure had equal lengths of 120 cubits. He also made a drawing of the interior structure.
   5. The boat had six decks [?] divided into seven and nine compartments.
   6. Water plugs were driven into the middle part.
   7. Punting poles and other necessary things were laid in.
   8. Three times 3,600 units of raw bitumen were melted in a kiln and three times 3,600 units of oil were used in addition to two times 3,600 units of oil that were stored in the boat.
   9. Oxen and sheep were slaughtered and ale, beer, oil, and wine were distributed to the workmen, like at a new year's festival.
   10. When the boat was finished, the launching was very difficult. A runway of poles was used to slide the boat into the water.
   11. Two-thirds of the boat was in the water.
   12. Utnapishtim loaded his silver and gold into the boat.
   13. He loaded "all the living beings that I had."
   14. His relatives and craftsmen, and "all the beasts and animals of the field" boarded the boat.
   15. The time arrived, as stated by the god Shamash, to seal the entry door.
   The storm
2. Early in the morning at dawn a black cloud arose from the horizon.
3. The weather was frightful.
4. Utnapishtim boarded the boat and entrusted the boat and its contents to his boatmaster Puzurammurri who sealed the entry.
5. The thunder god Adad rumbled in the cloud and storm gods Shullar and Hanish went over mountains and land.
6. Erragal pulled out the mooring poles and the dikes overflowed.
7. The Annunnaki gods lit up the land with their lightning.
8. There was stunned shock at Adad's deeds which turned everything to blackness. The land was shattered like a pot.
9. 1. All day long the south wind blew rapidly and the water overwhelmed the people like an attack.
   2. No one could see his fellows. They could not recognize each other in the torrent.
   3. The gods were frightened by the flood, and retreated up to the Anu heaven. They cowered like dogs lying by the outer wall.
   4. Ishtar shrieked like a woman in childbirth.
   5. The Mistress of the gods wailed that the old days had turned to clay because "I said evil things in the Assembly of the Gods, ordering a catastrophe to destroy my people who fill the sea like fish."
   6. The other gods were weeping with her and sat sobbing with grief, their lips burning, parched with thirst.
   7. The flood and wind lasted six days and six nights, flattening the land.
   8. On the seventh day, the storm was pounding [intermittently?] like a woman in labor.
   Calm after the storm
   
   1. The sea calmed and the whirlwind and flood stopped. All day long there was quiet. All humans had turned to clay.
   2. The terrain was as flat as a roof top. Utnapishtim opened a window and felt fresh air on his face.
   3. He fell to his knees and sat weeping, tears streaming down his face. He looked for coastlines at the horizon and saw a region of land.
   4. The boat lodged firmly on mount Nimush which held the boat for several days, allowing no swaying.
   5. On the seventh day he released a dove that flew away, but came back to him. He released a swallow, but it also came back to him.
   6. He released a raven which was able to eat and scratch, and did not circle back to the boat.
   7. He then sent his livestock out in various directions.
   The sacrifice
   
   1. He sacrificed a sheep and offered incense at a mountainous ziggurat where he placed 14 sacrificial vessels and poured reeds, cedar, and myrtle into the fire.
   2. The gods smelled the sweet odor of the sacrificial animal and gathered like flies over the sacrifice.
   3. Then the great goddess arrived, lifted up her flies (beads), and said
   4. "Ye gods, as surely as I shall not forget this lapis lazuli [amulet] around my neck, I shall be mindful of these days and never forget them! The gods may come to the sacrificial offering. But Enlil may not come, because he brought about the flood and annihilated my people without considering [the consequences]."
   5. When Enlil arrived, he saw the boat and became furious at the Igigi gods. He said "Where did a living being escape? No man was to survive the annihilation!"
   6. Ninurta spoke to Enlil saying "Who else but Ea could do such a thing? It is Ea who knew all of our plans."
   7. Ea spoke to Enlil saying "It was you, the Sage of the Gods. How could you bring about a flood without consideration?"
   8. Ea then accuses Enlil of sending a disproportionate punishment, and reminds him of the need for compassion.
   9. Ea denies leaking the god's secret plan to Atrahasis (= Utnapishtim), admitting only sending him a dream and deflecting Enlil's attention to the flood hero.
   The flood hero and his wife are granted immortality and transported far away
   
   1. Enlil then boards a boat and grasping Utnapishtim's hand, helps him and his wife aboard where they kneel. Standing between Utnapishtim and his wife, he touches their foreheads and blesses them. "Formerly Utnapishtim was a human being, but now he and his wife have become gods like us. Let Utnapishtim reside far away, at the mouth of the rivers."
   2. Utnapishtim and his wife are transported and settled at the "mouth of the rivers".
   
   

 

[metis]

Just more cut & paste that's such a waste of time.

 

[shunyadragon]

*shrugs*

What evidence?

This is your thread, the burden of proof is on you.

With science there is not proof. There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence for a world flood, but there is geologic and archaeological research and discoveries of the flood history of the Middle East and the flood.

onlinelibrary. wiley. com/doi/10.1002/gea.20057

Abstract
The role of avulsion in the evolution of civilization in lower Mesopotamia is widely recognized. Ancient settlements are closely associated with abandoned courses of the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers. This paper discusses avulsion history, controls of avulsions, their effects on civilization evolution from 7000 to 1000 yr B.P., and interactions between human activity and channel‐network evolution based on previous archaeological and geomorphological surveys, analysis of cuneiform texts, maps, satellite photos, and limited geological data. Settlement distribution in ancient Mesopotamia is modeled in relation to avulsion styles, as well as channel and sedimentation patterns. Avulsion belts are suggested as places where urban settlements emerged and were sustained. Multiple channel networks and avulsion belts created large, naturally irrigated areas, fostering the efficient agriculture needed to sustain dense rural and urban settlements. After channel networks were abandoned during delta evolution, largescale canal construction was required to sustain settlements but still could not prevent their decline. © 2005 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

 

[shunyadragon]

Scholarship considers the fllod myth to be most closely related to Epic of Gilamesh but there are hundreds of similar myths in all cultures.
The Gilgamesh flood myth is a flood myth in the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Gilgamesh flood myth - Wikipedia
Gilgamesh’s supposed historical reign is believed to have been approximately 2700 BCE,[2] shortly before the earliest known written stories. The discovery of artifacts associated with Aga and Enmebaragesi of Kish, two other kings named in the stories, has lent credibility to the historical existence of Gilgamesh.[3]

1. 
   Ea leaks the secret plan
   1. Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh a secret story that begins in the old city of Shuruppak on the banks of the Euphrates River.
   2. The "great gods" Anu, Enlil, Ninurta, Ennugi, and Ea were sworn to secrecy about their plan to cause the flood.
   3. But the god Ea (Sumerian god Enki) repeated the plan to Utnapishtim through a reed wall in a reed house.
   4. Ea commanded Utnapishtim to demolish his house and build a boat, regardless of the cost, to keep living beings alive.
   5. The boat must have equal dimensions with corresponding width and length and be covered over like Apsu boats.
   6. Utnapishtim promised to do what Ea commanded.
   7. He asked Ea what he should say to the city elders and the population.
   8. Ea tells him to say that Enlil has rejected him and he can no longer reside in the city or set foot in Enlil's territory.
   9. He should also say that he will go down to the Apsu "to live with my lord Ea".
   10. Note: 'Apsu' can refer to a fresh water marsh near the temple of Ea/Enki at the city of Eridu.[9]
   Building and launching the boat
   1. Carpenters, reed workers, and other people assembled one morning.
   2. [missing lines]
   3. Five days later, Utnapishtim laid out the exterior walls of the boat of 120 cubits.
   4. The sides of the superstructure had equal lengths of 120 cubits. He also made a drawing of the interior structure.
   5. The boat had six decks [?] divided into seven and nine compartments.
   6. Water plugs were driven into the middle part.
   7. Punting poles and other necessary things were laid in.
   8. Three times 3,600 units of raw bitumen were melted in a kiln and three times 3,600 units of oil were used in addition to two times 3,600 units of oil that were stored in the boat.
   9. Oxen and sheep were slaughtered and ale, beer, oil, and wine were distributed to the workmen, like at a new year's festival.
   10. When the boat was finished, the launching was very difficult. A runway of poles was used to slide the boat into the water.
   11. Two-thirds of the boat was in the water.
   12. Utnapishtim loaded his silver and gold into the boat.
   13. He loaded "all the living beings that I had."
   14. His relatives and craftsmen, and "all the beasts and animals of the field" boarded the boat.
   15. The time arrived, as stated by the god Shamash, to seal the entry door.
   The storm
2. Early in the morning at dawn a black cloud arose from the horizon.
3. The weather was frightful.
4. Utnapishtim boarded the boat and entrusted the boat and its contents to his boatmaster Puzurammurri who sealed the entry.
5. The thunder god Adad rumbled in the cloud and storm gods Shullar and Hanish went over mountains and land.
6. Erragal pulled out the mooring poles and the dikes overflowed.
7. The Annunnaki gods lit up the land with their lightning.
8. There was stunned shock at Adad's deeds which turned everything to blackness. The land was shattered like a pot.
9. 1. All day long the south wind blew rapidly and the water overwhelmed the people like an attack.
   2. No one could see his fellows. They could not recognize each other in the torrent.
   3. The gods were frightened by the flood, and retreated up to the Anu heaven. They cowered like dogs lying by the outer wall.
   4. Ishtar shrieked like a woman in childbirth.
   5. The Mistress of the gods wailed that the old days had turned to clay because "I said evil things in the Assembly of the Gods, ordering a catastrophe to destroy my people who fill the sea like fish."
   6. The other gods were weeping with her and sat sobbing with grief, their lips burning, parched with thirst.
   7. The flood and wind lasted six days and six nights, flattening the land.
   8. On the seventh day, the storm was pounding [intermittently?] like a woman in labor.
   Calm after the storm
   
   1. The sea calmed and the whirlwind and flood stopped. All day long there was quiet. All humans had turned to clay.
   2. The terrain was as flat as a roof top. Utnapishtim opened a window and felt fresh air on his face.
   3. He fell to his knees and sat weeping, tears streaming down his face. He looked for coastlines at the horizon and saw a region of land.
   4. The boat lodged firmly on mount Nimush which held the boat for several days, allowing no swaying.
   5. On the seventh day he released a dove that flew away, but came back to him. He released a swallow, but it also came back to him.
   6. He released a raven which was able to eat and scratch, and did not circle back to the boat.
   7. He then sent his livestock out in various directions.
   The sacrifice
   
   1. He sacrificed a sheep and offered incense at a mountainous ziggurat where he placed 14 sacrificial vessels and poured reeds, cedar, and myrtle into the fire.
   2. The gods smelled the sweet odor of the sacrificial animal and gathered like flies over the sacrifice.
   3. Then the great goddess arrived, lifted up her flies (beads), and said
   4. "Ye gods, as surely as I shall not forget this lapis lazuli [amulet] around my neck, I shall be mindful of these days and never forget them! The gods may come to the sacrificial offering. But Enlil may not come, because he brought about the flood and annihilated my people without considering [the consequences]."
   5. When Enlil arrived, he saw the boat and became furious at the Igigi gods. He said "Where did a living being escape? No man was to survive the annihilation!"
   6. Ninurta spoke to Enlil saying "Who else but Ea could do such a thing? It is Ea who knew all of our plans."
   7. Ea spoke to Enlil saying "It was you, the Sage of the Gods. How could you bring about a flood without consideration?"
   8. Ea then accuses Enlil of sending a disproportionate punishment, and reminds him of the need for compassion.
   9. Ea denies leaking the god's secret plan to Atrahasis (= Utnapishtim), admitting only sending him a dream and deflecting Enlil's attention to the flood hero.
   The flood hero and his wife are granted immortality and transported far away
   
   1. Enlil then boards a boat and grasping Utnapishtim's hand, helps him and his wife aboard where they kneel. Standing between Utnapishtim and his wife, he touches their foreheads and blesses them. "Formerly Utnapishtim was a human being, but now he and his wife have become gods like us. Let Utnapishtim reside far away, at the mouth of the rivers."
   2. Utnapishtim and his wife are transported and settled at the "mouth of the rivers".

This is indeed the earliest written record that the Genesis flood story is based on, and correlated with a catastrophic flood of the Tigris Euphrates Valley. The part of the stories of the construction of the boat in the Gilgamesh Epic and Genesis is a myth and is impossible to construct based on the Neolithic technology of the time.

 

[metis]

This is indeed the earliest written record that the Genesis flood story is based on, and correlated with a catastrophic flood of the Tigris Euphrates Valley. The part of the stories of the construction of the boat in the Gilgamesh Epic and Genesis is a myth and is impossible to construct based on the Neolithic technology of the time.

And I tend to believe that the Creation accounts fall into the same general paradigm, especially since the polytheistic Babylonian accounts were written about a thousand or so years earlier and were much more widespread. It's sorta like "The Babylonians say this, but we say that".

 

[shunyadragon]

And I tend to believe that the Creation accounts fall into the same general paradigm, especially since the polytheistic Babylonian accounts were written about a thousand or so years earlier and were much more widespread. It's sorta like "The Babylonians say this, but we say that".

The other important factor is the nature of the culture when recording natural events such as catastrophic flood events.throughout the early history of humanity. For example: China has a history of meticulously and accurately recording their history both orally and naturally. The catastrophic floods of the major rivers of China were both orally and later written accurately recorded, even though human heroic efforts may be exaggerated and embellished glorifying heroic figures and the government. Geologic research has confirmed the accurate accounts of the catastrophic floods.

Another example is the Tidal wave floods of the Northwest American coasts are well known through the history of the Native Americans accurately recorded in the totoms and oral legends In Japan the tidal wave records are also fairly accurate.

 

[metis]

The other important factor is the nature of the culture when recording natural events such as catastrophic flood events.throughout the early history of humanity. For example: China has a history of meticulously and accurately recording their history both orally and written and considers them natural floods. The catastrophic floods of the major rivers of China were both orally and later written accurately recorded, even though human heroic efforts may be exaggerated and embellished glorifying heroic figures and the government. Geologic research has confirmed the accurate accounts of the catastrophic floods.

Another example is the Tidal wave floods of the Northwest American coasts are well known through the history of the Native Americans accurately recorded in the totoms and oral legends In Japan the tidal wave records are also fairly accurate.

I believe in the Middle East the extreme nature of the catastrophic flood or floods recorded in the early cuneiform tablets was so extreme that it evoked myths and legends across the Middle East. Also the mythology of a miraculous Divine direct involvement was more real in the Middle East than in China.

Yep, as the Tigris and Euphrates, as you state above, also flooded, as did the Nile in Egypt. About 2/3 of the ancient societies had flood narratives of some type.