Non-Attachment vs. Suppression

[JustGeorge]

Presented with this verse from the Gita today, I reflected a bit on the difference from being truly non-attached, and suppressing emotions surrounding a situation.

That action which is regulated and which is performed without attachment, without love or hatred, and without desire for fruitive results is said to be in the mode of goodness.

I've read that this is a common mistake many make, not always knowing the difference between the two, what it feels like, or how to get there.

What do you think the differences are? How do you assure you're practicing non-attachment, and not suppression, especially while in the midst of an action?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Presented with this verse from the Gita today, I reflected a bit on the difference from being truly non-attached, and suppressing emotions surrounding a situation.


I've read that this is a common mistake many make, not always knowing the difference between the two, what it feels like, or how to get there.

What do you think the differences are? How do you assure you're practicing non-attachment, and not suppression, especially while in the midst of an action?

By acknowledging it's there and then just letting it go and allowing the emotion to run its course and allowing it to pass on its own accord.

Suppressing it would be like thinking that it shouldn't be there, so you end up fighting it back all the time.

 

[JustGeorge]

By acknowledging it's there and then just letting it go and allowing the emotion to run its course and allowing it to pass on its own accord.

Suppressing it would be like thinking that it shouldn't be there, so you end up fighting it back all the time.

Hm. I understand what you're saying, but wonder what that looks like in practice.

If a person hates doing the dishes, and it fills them with revulsion, how do they get from a point of accepting their revulsion to no longer having the dishes bring up revulsion?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Presented with this verse from the Gita today, I reflected a bit on the difference from being truly non-attached, and suppressing emotions surrounding a situation.


I've read that this is a common mistake many make, not always knowing the difference between the two, what it feels like, or how to get there.

What do you think the differences are? How do you assure you're practicing non-attachment, and not suppression, especially while in the midst of an action?

If one suppresses an emotion, wouldn't one still be experiencing said emotion amidst said action? The emotion would still be present, though subdued by force. Putting it simply, if one is "practicing non-attachment," one is suppressing attachment.

If one is unattached, any emotions surrounding a situation simply aren't experienced, because they simply aren't present or they've been transcended.

 

[JustGeorge]

If one suppresses an emotion, wouldn't one still be experiencing said emotion amidst said action? The emotion would still be present, though subdued by force. Putting it simply, if one is "practicing non-attachment," one is suppressing attachment.

If one is unattached, any emotions surrounding a situation simply aren't experienced, because they simply aren't present.

How does one become non-attached?

 

[SalixIncendium]

How does one become non-attached?

The three methods that have brought me success are meditation, contemplation on neti-neti, and renunciation.

Meditation has helped me in managing ego-impulses by way of stillness of the monkey mind. Contemplation on neti-neti has helped me to recognize what is a temporary appearance and what is immutable through understanding what is me and what is not me, and that forming an attachment to something that is fleeting or wanting something that is fleeting brings forth unproductive feelings within, i.e. desire, greed, and ultimately suffering. Renunciation has helped me to shed the temporary appearances, both of that which appears physical and what appears in the mind.

You mention unpleasant tasks such as doing dishes in a post above. I don't think anyone wishes to have more dishes to do, but realizing that the task is temporary and that harboring revulsion for such a temporary thing only leads to suffering. Also, gratitude for having dishes to do, clean water, and a sink to do them in helps, because there are those that are not fortunate enough to have any of the threee, and I'm confident that they would be grateful to be able to do dishes.

 

[JustGeorge]

The three methods that have brought me success are meditation, contemplation on neti-neti, and renunciation.

Meditation has helped me in managing ego-impulses by way of stillness of the monkey mind. Contemplation on neti-neti has helped me to recognize what is a temporary appearance and what is immutable through understanding what is me and what is not me, and that forming an attachment to something that is fleeting or wanting something that is fleeting brings forth unproductive feelings within, i.e. desire, greed, and ultimately suffering.

I understand you've had the experience of 'Oneness'(for lack of a better way of expressing it), and are able to identify with all things. What does the contemplation of neti-neti look like for someone that's not able to relate? Is the cat I? Am I the chair? We share molecules. Is that the same?

(Not trying to be difficult, this has always been hard for me to grasp.)

Renunciation has helped me to shed the temporary appearances, both of that which appears physical and what appears in the mind.

You mention unpleasant tasks such as doing dishes in a post above. I don't think anyone wishes to have more dishes to do, but realizing that the task is temporary and that harboring revulsion for such a temporary thing only leads to suffering. Also, gratitude for having dishes to do, clean water, and a sink to do them in helps, because there are those that are not fortunate enough to have any of the threee, and I'm confident that they would be grateful to be able to do dishes.

Emotions can come out of nowhere at times, and aren't always controlled. Its hard to step in poop and not get disgusted, or to get punched and not have either fear or anger come up.

Do you think gratitude in general helps curb negative emotions regarding actions(either performed, or performed on you)?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hm. I understand what you're saying, but wonder what that looks like in practice.

If a person hates doing the dishes, and it fills them with revulsion, how do they get from a point of accepting their revulsion to no longer having the dishes bring up revulsion?

I think of it as having the best revulsion I've ever had. Only the highest quality revulsion is good enough for me. ;0]

 

[JustGeorge]

I think of it as having the best revulsion I've ever had. Only the highest quality revulsion is good enough for me. ;0]

That's a unique view. Revel in the revulsion?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I understand you've had the experience of 'Oneness'(for lack of a better way of expressing it), and are able to identify with all things. What does the contemplation of neti-neti look like for someone that's not able to relate? Is the cat I? Am I the chair? We share molecules. Is that the same?

(Not trying to be difficult, this has always been hard for me to grasp.)

I don't think for a minute you're trying to be difficult.

Neti-neti isn't about identifying as that which appears to you, but rather a Self-inquiry that involves a process of negation. It translates to "not this - not this."

In essence, worldly things one would commonly identify with are negated one by one until all that remains is the Atman (Self). Essentially, anything that one observes is negated as the Anatman (not Self), things such as the physical body, one's breathing, one's senses, one's sense organs, one's thoughts, and so on. One continues to negate each item one can observe and when nothing else can be negated, that verily is the Atman.

Emotions can come out of nowhere at times, and aren't always controlled. Its hard to step in poop and not get disgusted, or to get punched and not have either fear or anger come up.

Absolutely, and in the process of neti-neti, the identification with the emotions is negated. It's an object that is observed, but not part of the Self. It is a temporary appearance but needn't be touched. One needn't attach oneself to such emotions.

I stepped in poop. It happened; disgust won't reverse what happened or clean the poop of my good white boots. I realize disgust only hurts me and leads to suffering, so I'll just acknowledge what happened, clean off my boots, and the temporary appearance of poop on my boots no longer exists. As far as getting punched, the pain will be temporary. Anger or fear will only result in my own suffering, so I choose to not be attached to either of those, accept the temporary appearance of pain is what it is, remain mindful that another punch could coming, and focus on avoiding it. This ties to the two arrows in Buddhism I've posted many time on the forum.

Do you think gratitude in general helps curb negative emotions regarding actions(either performed, or performed on you)?

I do. This is something I've been working with my daughter on. Whenever a negative emotion comes from an action, think of something related to that action or resulting from that action that you can be grateful for, as in the dishes example I provided above.

 

[JustGeorge]

I don't think for a minute you're trying to be difficult.

Neti-neti isn't about identifying as that which appears to you, but rather a Self-inquiry that involves a process of negation. It translates to "not this - not this."

In essence, worldly things one would commonly identify with are negated one by one until all that remains is the Atman (Self). Essentially, anything that one observes is negated as the Anatman (not Self), things such as the physical body, one's breathing, one's senses, one's sense organs, one's thoughts, and so on. One continues to negate each item one can observe and when nothing else can be negated, that verily is the Atman.

Who's are those? (my knees, my laughter, my sense of smell, etc)

I thought about it while riding in the car for awhile. I can see what you mean. I am not my feelings, I am not the itch on my neck. VVho is that vvith the feelings and itchy neck? VVhat are they doing?

Absolutely, and in the process of neti-neti, the identification with the emotions is negated. It's an object that is observed, but not part of the Self. It is a temporary appearance but needn't be touched. One needn't attach oneself to such emotions.

I stepped in poop. It happened; disgust won't reverse what happened or clean the poop of my good white boots. I realize disgust only hurts me and leads to suffering, so I'll just acknowledge what happened, clean off my boots, and the temporary appearance of poop on my boots no longer exists. As far as getting punched, the pain will be temporary. Anger or fear will only result in my own suffering, so I choose to not be attached to either of those, accept the temporary appearance of pain is what it is, remain mindful that another punch could coming, and focus on avoiding it. This ties to the two arrows in Buddhism I've posted many time on the forum.

You have good white boots, too? Do you wear them with your paisley speedo?

Its hard to separate from the thoughts in the moment. I have noticed I've separated from physical pain. I tend to do the task at hand so attentively I don't realize I've injured myself... I guess its a start.

I assume non attachment is a journey, and not something that occurs overnight(for most of us).

I do. This is something I've been working with my daughter on. Whenever a negative emotion comes from an action, think of something related to that action or resulting from that action that you can be grateful for, as in the dishes example I provided above.

I've been trying to do that more. Not perfect, but not much is. (What is perfection, anyways?)

 

[Aupmanyav]

The three methods that have brought me success are meditation, contemplation on neti-neti, and renunciation.

of the three, i will choose just contemplation. that brings renunciation and a calmness also. one needs to understand. not on neti-neti per say, that is another subject, but what one is faced with in daily life.

justgeorge: yeah, emotions are ok, one cannot escape them in life, but we need to be sensible about them.

 

[ajay0]

Presented with this verse from the Gita today, I reflected a bit on the difference from being truly non-attached, and suppressing emotions surrounding a situation.


I've read that this is a common mistake many make, not always knowing the difference between the two, what it feels like, or how to get there.

What do you think the differences are? How do you assure you're practicing non-attachment, and not suppression, especially while in the midst of an action?

There is a saying by George Washington in this regard that can be used as a reference, imho.

“Decision making, like coffee, needs a cooling process.” ~ George Washingtom

If the mind is not calm or regulated by reason and patient self-control, it is bound to be agitated resulting in incorrect judgement and actions. All failures are caused by poor judgement.

Regular sadhana or spiritual exercise can be helpful in disciplining the mind, enabling non-attachment and mental equanimity necessary for correct judgement and actons.

In a personal situation, it is especially hard to be non-attached, and hence the chances for emotional volatility is high. For example , homicide statistics shows that a large percentage of perpetrators were related or known to the victim.

My engineer father was a bad tuition teacher in math as he expected me to quick and efficient in problem solving and was highly impatient. Hence it was a bad experience for me in childhood learning math. However with professional tuition teachers I found learning math to be a pleasant and comfortable experience as they were very patient and impersonal or non-emotive.

Social conditioning also inflames passions and emotional dislike against the other race, religion, country and so on. One remembers those whom one hates than those that one loves.

Hence the reason neutral entities are needed for conflict resolution and management, because they do not have emotions to cloud their reason.

 

[JustGeorge]

There is a saying by George Washington in this regard that can be used as a reference, imho.



If the mind is not calm or regulated by reason and patient self-control, it is bound to be agitated resulting in incorrect judgement and actions. All failures are caused by poor judgement.

Regular sadhana or spiritual exercise can be helpful in disciplining the mind, enabling non-attachment and mental equanimity necessary for correct judgement and actons.

In a personal situation, it is especially hard to be non-attached, and hence the chances for emotional volatility is high. For example , homicide statistics shows that a large percentage of perpetrators were related or known to the victim.

My engineer father was a bad tuition teacher in math as he expected me to quick and efficient in problem solving and was highly impatient. Hence it was a bad experience for me in childhood learning math. However with professional tuition teachers I found learning math to be a pleasant and comfortable experience as they were very patient and impersonal or non-emotive.

Social conditioning also inflames passions and emotional dislike against the other race, religion, country and so on. One remembers those whom one hates than those that one loves.

Hence the reason neutral entities are needed for conflict resolution and management, because they do not have emotions to cloud their reason.

It seems like there are many steps to take before most of us can get to a place where non attachment is possible.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am not my feelings, I am not the itch on my neck. Who is that vvith the feelings and itchy neck? What are they doing?

I assume non attachment is a journey, and not something that occurs overnight(for most of us). (What is perfection, anyways?)

you can say that it is your pragmatic avatara in this evanescent world, vyavaharika satya, no harm in scratching your back. even after understanding something about neti-neti, we remain creatures of this world. as the zen master said, after enlightenment, we have to bring water and wash the floor. yeah, non-attachment is a journey. and as you say it does rarely happen overnight. and then, i have kept a few things consciously clear of it. one of them is the feeling for my country.
perfection is gpa, most do not get 100%.

 

[JustGeorge]

you can say that it is your pragmatic avatara in this evanescent world, vyavaharika satya, no harm in scratching yuor back. even after understanding something about neti-neti, we remain creatures of this world. as the zen master sais, after enlightenment, we have to bring water and wash the floor. yeah, non-attachment is a journey. and as you say it does rarely happen overnight. and then, i have kept a few things consciously clear of it. one of them is the feeling for my country.

What should our relationship be with this avatara, then?

Do you hold attachment to your country out of a sense of Dharma?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Who's are those? (my knees, my laughter, my sense of smell, etc)

I thought about it while riding in the car for awhile. I can see what you mean. I am not my feelings, I am not the itch on my neck. VVho is that vvith the feelings and itchy neck? VVhat are they doing?

These are qualities of the Jiva. Your character in vyavaharika projected through Maya as a result of avidya. Appearances in you.

Your character in your dream has knees, laughter, a sense of smell, feelings, and sometimes an itchy neck. Whose are those?

You have good white boots, too? Do you wear them with your paisley speedo?

Of course not. That would be silly. Everyone knows one wears good white boots to libraries, and that plaid Speedos are more appropriate fashion for reading.

 

[SalixIncendium]

you can say that it is your pragmatic avatara in this evanescent world, vyavaharika satya, no harm in scratching yuor back. even after understanding something about neti-neti, we remain creatures of this world. as the zen master sais, after enlightenment, we have to bring water and wash the floor. yeah, non-attachment is a journey. and as you say it does rarely happen overnight.

Indeed. Upon enlightenment, the empirical world does not simply disappear. One still remains engaged in the world, but has an understanding of its nature and interacts with the world with equanimity and dispassion.

 

[SalixIncendium]

What should our relationship be with this avatara, then?

What is your relationship with your character in your dream? What is gold's relationship with the ornament? What is clay's relationship with the pot?

 

[Aupmanyav]

What should our relationship be with this avatara, then?
Do you hold attachment to your country out of a sense of Dharma?

light. do not get too involved.
yes. 'this is fascism' is not going to change my view. but that does not mean that i am an enemy to others, not even those who try to harm my country. i will like the government to take necessary steps, that is all (it is doing that in a good manner).