Non-Belief and the Inner Self

[Random]

Are you implying that we all begin life with an image of God and a belief in the supernatural intact?

Hmm. Yes I do believe that. It has to do with the matrix (womb), and what passes from the mother to the unborn child within.

 

[Willamena]

What would you say is the relationship (if any) between belief in a thing and participation in a thing?

 

[Random]

What would you say is the relationship (if any) between belief in a thing and participation in a thing?

As I see it, belief is the open bridge between dualities, and the enabling perspective that allows one to transcend those dualities, and craft something that is a combination of both but something else (ie. a reality out of two fictions).

For example, we all participate in the World, but the way we do that is modelled by our degrees of belief in its ultimate reality, (or lack thereof).

 

[Rolling_Stone]

*shrug* Obviously "being mystic" means something specific to each of you, as it does to me. I see in what small bit of Nietzsche's works that have been quoted in threads about mysticism on these forums an understanding not possible if one is not themselves a mystic.

I'll stick to what the professors have to say, thank you.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And yet you seemed so emphatic in your opinion that the practice of religion is meant to attain the true fulfillment of human destiny.

Are you not aware that there exists religious practice that doesn't involve belief?
To be fair, I couldn't expect you would because that awareness only is present when the mortal mind ceases thinking and having opinions.

 

[Magic Man]

Are you not aware that there exists religious practice that doesn't involve belief?
To be fair, I couldn't expect you would because that awareness only is present when the mortal mind ceases thinking and having opinions.

Actually everything in life requires belief, including science and religion.

 

[Escéptico]

Are you not aware that there exists religious practice that doesn't involve belief?

No religious practice requires belief. That's why religion has survived for as long as it has.

To be fair, I couldn't expect you would because that awareness only is present when the mortal mind ceases thinking and having opinions.

That's fair, eh?

Oh, right, you've decided to insult me as locked into that 'rational' mindset, whereas you soar in the magic aethyr with the bodhisattvas. Hey, believe whatever New Age numbnuttery gets you through the day.

 

[Random]

Actually everything in life requires belief, including science and religion.

Yes. Frubals.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Actually everything in life requires belief, including science and religion.

Maybe so,.. but I said 'religious practice', not 'religion'.
The transcendent can't be known by any human knowledge.

 

[Escéptico]

Maybe so,.. but I said 'religious practice', not 'religion'.

Distinction without a difference.

The transcendent can't be known by any human knowledge.

It's strange that the fact that the transcendent can't be known by any human knowledge can be known by human knowledge.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No religious practice requires belief. That's why religion has survived for as long as it has.

Religion may require belief,..not so religious practice! Life lived true to 'who' one really is, is for me a religious practice. Life lived according to the dictates of a 'belief' is acting to a script.

Oh, right, you've decided to insult me as locked into that 'rational' mindset, whereas you soar in the magic aethyr with the bodhisattvas. Hey, believe whatever New Age numbnuttery gets you through the day.

It is not my intention to offend anyone, but then to be true, what I express should be nothing less than how I understand things to be.
Please try to understand that my responses to you are based on my best understanding of your understanding. So long as you understand that your responses to my understanding are based on your best understanding, then we can share understanding.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Distinction without a difference.

religion = noun
practice = noun
religious = adjective

Religion is not the same thing as practice

It's strange that the fact that the transcendent can't be known by any human knowledge can be known by human knowledge.

The dictionary meaning of transcendent is,..'Beyond and outside the ordinary range of human experience or understanding.
You will have to take your concern up with the appropriate authority.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Religion is not the same thing as practice

The dictionary meaning of transcendent is,..'Beyond and outside the ordinary range of human experience or understanding.

There is no question you understand why I laughed at the joke mentioned in "Laughter is Good Medicine."

 

[Sunstone]

Actually everything in life requires belief, including science and religion.

So when I slam a hammer on my thumb, I must first pause to ascertain what my beliefs are before proceeding to yell "ouch"?

Or (presumably) when I have a direct experience of "deity", I must first pause to ascertain whether I believe in "deity"?

 

[Sunstone]

It's strange that the fact that the transcendent can't be known by any human knowledge can be known by human knowledge.

In principle, not any more strange, really, than collaborating the theory of relativity by observing, during an eclipse of the sun, a tiny variation between the projected position of Mercury and the apparent position of Mercury. That is, whatever might be known of what Ben calls the "Transcendent" is either mostly or entirely known through its effects on us.

 

[Sunstone]

I only said that Nietzsche wasn't a mystic however insightful some of his philosophy was.

Are you saying Nietzsche did not have any mystical experiences?

Even atheistic Buddhism is rooted in non-atheistic beliefs (Hinduism).

That to my inexpert mind suggests your understanding of Buddhism is more or less typical of Westerners.

 

[Sunstone]

No, but materialism and reductionism, so beloved of Atheists, is mutually exclusive with real mysticism.

The truth of your statement would depend on how one defines "real mysticism", wouldn't it? What then, if anything, prevents any Tom, Dick, and Harry from asserting precisely the opposite of your claim based on their choosing a different definition of "real mysticism" than yours? Put differently, on what grounds does one claim that X is "real mysticism" while Y is not?

Anything else is just make-believe, pretence...

Your rhetoric there does not constitute a grounds for your claim.

 

[Sunstone]

So far as I know, a sense of fulfillment in life does not require one to in any sense be religious. I would strongly suggest the truth of the matter is closer to this: Regardless of whether or not one is religious, a deeply felt sense of fulfillment in life is more likely to come from matching up one's talents and skills with the needs of the world than it is likely to come from some religious belief or practice. That's to say, I don't rule out a sense of fulfillment coming from some religious belief or practice, but I believe it uncommon when compared to how many people -- religious and otherwise -- find a deeply felt sense of fulfillment in exercising their talents and skills to meet the needs of the world.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There is no question you understand why I laughed at the joke mentioned in "Laughter is Good Medicine."

Good one Rolling Stone.

 

[Willamena]

Religion may require belief,..not so religious practice! Life lived true to 'who' one really is, is for me a religious practice. Life lived according to the dictates of a 'belief' is acting to a script.

I think the distinction here is semantical, that is a difference in understanding just what is a "belief."