Non-Hindus and Hindu Deities

[SomeRandom]

I also know that in strong families, the dharma to family will override personal beliefs. This is true in my friend Aup's case, although I still don't see him as a hard atheist at all.

This is very true.
The high importance placed on Dharma to one's family is often a core belief structure in Hindu families. Even my own rather liberal mixed interfaith one has a strong sense of familial obligation.
It's partly why I am rather more....."forgiving" of the Abrahamics, specifically Christians. If a Christian/Catholic Aunty asked me to attend a Church thingy and it clearly meant something important to them, then I would. Such is my duty.

 

[SomeRandom]

So true. Having been privy to the donations at one time, some of the most vocal supporters gave little money, and some of the quiet folk gave a ton of money, quietly. We got small 'friendly' donations from several Christians.

Yes some are big talkers and others are big walkers, so to speak.

 

[Vinayaka]

This is very true.
The high importance placed on Dharma to one's family is often a core belief structure in Hindu families. Even my own rather liberal mixed interfaith one has a strong sense of familial obligation.
It's partly why I am rather more....."forgiving" of the Abrahamics, specifically Christians. If a Christian/Catholic Aunty asked me to attend a Church thingy and it clearly meant something important to them, then I would. Such is my duty.

I did that too, attending niece's weddings and the like. But none of them are particularly religious either. Just Christian as the default position. One brother is harder, because he's a bit of an anti-theist, yet knows nothing about the differences between my Hindu faith, and the 'typical' Christian. So I'm just another Bible thumper to him, lol.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes some are big talkers and others are big walkers, so to speak.

I have stories, lol.

 

[SomeRandom]

I did that too, attending niece's weddings and the like. But none of them are particularly religious either. Just Christian as the default position. One brother is harder, because he's a bit of an anti-theist, yet knows nothing about the differences between my Hindu faith, and the 'typical' Christian. So I'm just another Bible thumper to him, lol.

I literally just had a bunch of weddings lol. Some religious some not. Most Christian. One was Muslim and a Sikh. Another was a Hindu. I feel like my wedding seasons are like world trips sometimes LOL

 

[Aupmanyav]

Depends on the school, Aup. For theists, deities matter.

What I meant was that if a person leaves his/her 'dharma', then he cannot claim to be a Hindu. No stress on deities can remedy that situation after that. The deities will forgo the person till he/she make amends.

An example would be 'it's your dharma to build a temple for future generations.' No true atheist would see that as his dharma.

Uh. Respectfully, I beg to differ.

As an atheist I may help build a temple (or build a temple if I had means) because everybody is not going to be an atheist but even a Hindu atheist will like people to follow 'dharma'. So, it is OK if I build a temple for theists if that can encourage them to stick to 'dharma'. 'Dharma' is supreme.

A jnani is far far different than an atheist.

Vinayaka, you mean an atheist cannot be a jnani? Very disappointing. You are dismissing people like me, Luis, Valjean, SomeRandom, Jai etc.; no to mention greats like Russel, etc.

This is true in my friend Aup's case, although I still don't see him as a hard atheist at all.

I will let it pass.

Yeah, 75th. Don't bother with congrats. I feel your good-wishes. Time for me to leave for Himalayas, 'Sannyasa Ashram'. Will I?

 

[Vinayaka]

Vinayaka, you mean an atheist cannot be a jnani? Very disappointing. You are dismissing people like me, Luis, Valjean, SomeRandom, Jai etc.; no to mention greats like Russel, etc.

Not at all. The context was discussing atheists, and jnanis came up. It sounded to me like the person meant that once you are a jnani, then you're automatically no longer a theist.

To me a jnani is one who has had nirvikalpa samadhi, and the inner knowledge that goes with that, whilst an atheist is just anyone who denies God's existence. I think most atheists would also deny the possibility of jnanis even existing.

But again, we may well have differing definitions or ideas about what constitutes jnani.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. that once you are a jnani, then you're automatically no longer a theist. .. and the inner knowledge that goes with that, ..

No, I do not mean that. Being a 'jnani' is not limited to atheists. Similarly, atheist also can have the inner knowledge that you are talking about, that is not limited to theists only.

 

[Vinayaka]

No, I do not mean that. Being a 'jnani' is not limited to atheists. Similarly, atheist also can have the inner knowledge that you are talking about, that is not limited to theists only.

This just goes back to previous discussions we've had about God, and how we define it. A jnani has merged with Brahman, an atheist doesn't call Brahman God for his own good reasons, but many of us do call Brahman God. Still, it always has to be reinforced that this is very different than the Abrahamic God.

In monistic Saiva Siddhanta, God is both manifest, and unmanifest. Even the manifest version isn't very close to the Abrahamic version, which I'm also an atheist to.

I think even someone of the likes of Ramana Maharshi would acknowledge the temple's role on the path. He lived within a moolasthanam for awhile, and his ashram was within walking distance of one of the greatest Saiva temples on the planet.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Merged with Brahman (or understanding that all this is Brahman, 'Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma') is possible without making Brahman into a God. Brahman is manifested everywhere, in you, in me, and in everything that we perceive, because there is nothing other than Brahman (Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti). But views will differ and as a Hindu, though an atheist one, I respect all.

 

[Shantanu]

Yeah, 75th. Don't bother with congrats. I feel your good-wishes. Time for me to leave for Himalayas, 'Sannyasa Ashram'. Will I?

I know God says: 'you do your dharma and leave the rest to me'. That is why even as an atheist you are 75 today (well done and best wishes) and a real jnani who is doing well looking for sanyass .