Non-Muslim views about Muhammad

[Aupmanyav]

The same evidence that was presented to the courts was presented to the Muslim community leaders. Here is what they ordained. How come the Muslim leaders came with this decision while the court found Mohammad Ali guilty?

"Soon after she was raped, a local Muslim panchayat (council of elders) asked her to treat her husband Nur Ilahi as her son and declared their marriage null and void. Imrana defied the panchayat's ruling and continued living with her husband."
Imrana rape case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The All India Muslim Personal Law Board, a national arbiter of Islamic affairs established in 1973 and stocked with 41 Islamic scholars, also endorsed this verdict.
Muslim Women in India Seek Secular Justice | Womens eNews

Why do we have this page on Milli Gazette (Imrana case: Rape by Media but this page (http://www.milligazette.com/dailyupdate/2005/imrana-no-rape-video.wmv) has been removed.
Do you think that Indian Courts have not considered all angles, including why Imrana might have spoken a lie?
You see, FarouqFarouq, a lie does not have feet (as the saying goes in India) and one have to speak a hundred lies to save one lie. It is better to accept facts.

 

[DawudTalut]

..... I don't agree with his notions of how women should be treated.....

Peace be on you.
With due respect:

Muhammad the Liberator of Women
Second Ahmadiyya Muslim Successor to the Promised Messiah

@ Muhammad the Liberator of Women
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/books/Muhammad-the-liberator-of-women.html
and related links

 

[faroukfarouk]

The same evidence that was presented to the courts was presented to the Muslim community leaders. Here is what they ordained. How come the Muslim leaders came with this decision while the court found Mohammad Ali guilty?

"Soon after she was raped, a local Muslim panchayat (council of elders) asked her to treat her husband Nur Ilahi as her son and declared their marriage null and void. Imrana defied the panchayat's ruling and continued living with her husband."
Imrana rape case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The All India Muslim Personal Law Board, a national arbiter of Islamic affairs established in 1973 and stocked with 41 Islamic scholars, also endorsed this verdict.
Muslim Women in India Seek Secular Justice | Womens eNews

Why do we have this page on Milli Gazette (Imrana case: Rape by Media but this page (http://www.milligazette.com/dailyupdate/2005/imrana-no-rape-video.wmv) has been removed.
Do you think that Indian Courts have not considered all angles, including why Imrana might have spoken a lie?
You see, FarouqFarouq, a lie does not have feet (as the saying goes in India) and one have to speak a hundred lies to save one lie. It is better to accept facts.

Imrana's purported statement that her father-in-law had been unsuccessful in his attempt to rape her.
But a doctor gave a medical report.
You no doubt have an excellent judiciary.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If that was the case, the Panchayat, All India Muslim Personal Law Board, should have dismissed the case. Why did they ask Noor Mohammad to consider his wife as mother and wife of his father? What was the need for Daarul Ulum Deoband fatwa?
The conviction of Ali Mohammad does not give the right to his property to Imrana or Noor Mohammad.
Sharia was good enough for 7th Century, IMHO, it does not suit the 21st.

 

[the700clowns]

If that was the case, the Panchayat, All India Muslim Personal Law Board, should have dismissed the case. Why did they ask Noor Mohammad to consider his wife as mother and wife of his father? What was the need for Daarul Ulum Deoband fatwa?
The conviction of Ali Mohammad does not give the right to his property to Imrana or Noor Mohammad.
Sharia was good enough for 7th Century, IMHO, it does not suit the 21st.

dont base your attacks on islam from news and other so called "islamic" leaders opinion, or what other muslims are doing, you are quick to judge just like you were wrong with your claim "that in islam you need 4 witnesses to convict a rapist", which you only probably read from the news. just because some christians/muslims have this so and so belief, and do what they do, doesnt mean that that's what the bible/quran teaches, that's an idiotic assumption.

i havent read the whole story of that indian news thingy, but what i know is that in islam, no one has the right to rape anybody, and rape is punishable by death, declaring a woman your mother just because she was raped by your father is stoopeed judgment (if it was true) by an islamic leader, much more if that woman is your wife. your father's wives (besides your real mother) are not even considered your mother in Islam, an adopted son is not even considered a real son unless he was breastfed by the mother.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I agree, accept those which your right-hand holds (It is immaterial if you were the cause of the death of their fathers or husbands. Then no need for the 'iddah' to get over if you are in a hurry). Sharia belongs to the 7th Century. IMHO, Islam needs some corrections.

 

[faroukfarouk]

dont base your attacks on islam from news and other so called "islamic" leaders opinion, or what other muslims are doing, you are quick to judge just like you were wrong with your claim "that in islam you need 4 witnesses to convict a rapist", which you only probably read from the news. just because some christians/muslims have this so and so belief, and do what they do, doesnt mean that that's what the bible/quran teaches, that's an idiotic assumption.

i havent read the whole story of that indian news thingy, but what i know is that in islam, no one has the right to rape anybody, and rape is punishable by death, declaring a woman your mother just because she was raped by your father is stoopeed judgment (if it was true) by an islamic leader, much more if that woman is your wife. your father's wives (besides your real mother) are not even considered your mother in Islam, an adopted son is not even considered a real son unless he was breastfed by the mother.

In Islam there is no shariah law that states that if your father in law rapes his daughter in law then the daughter in law must marry the father in law.
The Noble Quraan verse 4:22
"And marry not women whom your fathers married,- except what is past: It was shameful and odious,- an abominable custom indeed".
This verse is very clear.
Now its a shame when people who do not know Islamic principles try to make decisions on the name of Islamic religion.In Islam it is forbidden to marry a women whom the son has married.Furthermore a marriage cannot take place without the women consent so its not the problem of Islam that the panchayat had made a decision on the rapist favor but the problem here is panchayads who really do not understand the Islamic law making decisions.
From what i see its more tribal laws made by elders in tribal areas and has nothing to do with Sharia.
Finally its pretty obvious that this was not a rape trial but Islam was put on the dock.
Peace

 

[arthra]

I guess this topic is still on the Comparative Religion board and it concerns "non-Muslim" views of Prophet Muhammad... Baha'is have what I would call a very respectful view of Prophet Muhammad. I'll provide a few excerpts from the Baha'i Writings:

"Behold how the sovereignty of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, is today apparent and manifest amongst the people. You are well aware of what befell His Faith in the early days of His Dispensation. What woeful sufferings did the hand of the infidel and erring, the divines of that age and their associates, inflict upon that spiritual Essence, that most pure and holy Being! How abundant the thorns and briars which they have strewn over His path! It is evident that that wretched generation, in their wicked and satanic fancy, regarded every injury to that immortal 25 Being as a means to the attainment of an abiding felicity; inasmuch as the recognized divines of that age, such as Abdu'llah-i-Ubayy, Abu'Amir, the hermit, Ka'b-ibn-i-Ashraf, and Nadr-ibn-i-Harith, all treated Him as an impostor, and pronounced Him a lunatic and a calumniator. Such sore accusations they brought against Him that in recounting them God forbiddeth the ink to flow, Our pen to move, or the page to bear them. These malicious imputations provoked the people to arise and torment Him. And how fierce that torment, if the divines of the age be its chief instigators, if they denounce Him to their followers, cast Him out from their midst, and declare Him a miscreant! Hath not the same befallen this Servant, and been witnessed by all?

"For this reason did Muhammad cry out: "No Prophet of God hath suffered such harm as I have suffered." And in the Qur'án are recorded all the calumnies and reproaches uttered against Him, as well as all the afflictions which He suffered. Refer ye thereunto, that haply ye may be informed of that which hath befallen His Revelation. So grievous was His plight, that for a time all ceased to hold intercourse with Him and His companions. Whoever associated with Him fell a victim to the relentless cruelty of His enemies...."

~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 23

 

[Aupmanyav]

Allah can always give new rules or change them. "There is no might nor change except in Allah."
FaroukFarouk, I appreciate your defense of Islam. My best regards to you and other believers.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Allah can always give new rules or change them. "There is no might nor change except in Allah."
FaroukFarouk, I appreciate your defense of Islam. My best regards to you and other believers.

Aupmanyav
You welcome but take note i am not defending Islam.
All i am doing is presenting to you the truth.
Now i am very well aware that you do have further concerns regarding our Islamic beliefs.
So please don't go away.

I agree, accept those which your right-hand holds (It is immaterial if you were the cause of the death of their fathers or husbands. Then no need for the 'iddah' to get over if you are in a hurry). Sharia belongs to the 7th Century. IMHO, Islam needs some corrections.

Please be more specific here so that i can address you.
Peace

 

[Aupmanyav]

Should I, or should I desist? :thinking:
I understand Islam quite well, I do not think I will need explanations. Noth for and against, internet has loads of information.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Should I, or should I desist? :thinking:
I understand Islam quite well, I do not think I will need explanations. Noth for and against, internet has loads of information.

While you thinking let me give you some food for taught.
"According to National Crime Records Bureau statistics, a woman is raped every 20 minutes in India and rapists often go unpunished or get a soft penalty".
True or false
Now who should take the rap?
The government judiciary,Islam,Hinduism or ........culture

 

[Aupmanyav]

"According to National Crime Records Bureau statistics, a woman is raped every 20 minutes in India and rapists often go unpunished or get a soft penalty".
True or false
Now who should take the rap?
The government judiciary,Islam,Hinduism or ........culture

Partly true. When they get caught, the punishment is strong, the courts are impartial. Now what can be done if the families try to hide the crime and do not report? Or when the police help a particular section of society and leave holes in the prosecution. Like women tortured for dowry - why families not just leave those who ask for dowry ? Why they try to satisfy the demands till the inevitable happens? These are social and political problems, and we have not yet found a perfect way to overcome them. Society needs to be brave. Just today, a brave woman objected to indecent gestures of the bodyguard of a Uttar Pradesh minister, damaged his Merc car, tore away the flag on the car, and made him pay Rs.6,500 rupees for a mobile phone damaged by the guard.

Watch video: Woman breaks SP leaders Mercedes car after his guard winked at her - Oneindia Agra woman smashes SP leader's car after gunner winks at her Watch: Agra woman fights back after she was winked at by SP leader’s gunner | Zee News Eve teased by security detail, Agra woman vents anger on SP leader's car , AniNews.in Watch: Agra woman smashes Mercedes after she was winked at by SP leader’s gunner | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis Agra woman smashes SP leader’s car over his gunman’s lewd gesture - The Hindu ABP Live - English News, Today’s Latest Breaking News in English, Online English News Teased by bodyguard, woman smashes local Samajwadi Party leader’s Mercedes | The Indian Express

We have a very strong media. Within minutes of the incident, the news was on all the TVs and e-papers all over India. The spectacled person is the minister. The guard has been sacked. There have been other incidents like this.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Partly true. When they get caught, the punishment is strong, the courts are impartial. Now what can be done if the families try to hide the crime and do not report? Or when the police help a particular section of society and leave holes in the prosecution. Like women tortured for dowry - why families not just leave those who ask for dowry ? Why they try to satisfy the demands till the inevitable happens? These are social and political problems, and we have not yet found a perfect way to overcome them. Society needs to be brave. Just today, a brave woman objected to indecent gestures of the bodyguard of a Uttar Pradesh minister, damaged his Merc car, tore away the flag on the car, and made him pay Rs.6,500 rupees for a mobile phone damaged by the guard.

Watch video: Woman breaks SP leaders Mercedes car after his guard winked at her - Oneindia Agra woman smashes SP leader's car after gunner winks at her Watch: Agra woman fights back after she was winked at by SP leader’s gunner | Zee News Eve teased by security detail, Agra woman vents anger on SP leader's car , AniNews.in Watch: Agra woman smashes Mercedes after she was winked at by SP leader’s gunner | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis Agra woman smashes SP leader’s car over his gunman’s lewd gesture - The Hindu ABP Live - English News, Today’s Latest Breaking News in English, Online English News Teased by bodyguard, woman smashes local Samajwadi Party leader’s Mercedes | The Indian Express

We have a very strong media. Within minutes of the incident, the news was on all the TVs and e-papers all over India. The spectacled person is the minister.

My opinion it is a cultural problem and has nothing to do with religion.Not only India has this problem but it is evident in Pakistan and also Arab countries.
If the judiciary is lenient then that is an encouragement and not a deterrent.
So far as your judiciary is concerned here is an article that not very good.
"In Shanbaug's case, the man who raped her, Sohanlal Bharta Walmiki, wasn’t even charged with rape since sodomy wasn’t regarded as such under Indian law at the time. He spent just seven years in prison for robbery and attempted murder".
Here is your link.
Indian nurse dies after 42 years in rape-induced coma — RT News

The incident happened in 1973 and hopefully your judiciary must have changed its rape policy by now..
Woh next time i visit India i am going to wear sun glasses.I have this bad habit of winking.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is right. The laws have changed and they are much stronger now. What to talk of rape, even an undecent gesture or remark is punishable by imprisonment for one year and fine. A touch means two years and fine. Be careful when you visit India. http://vikaspedia.in/social-welfare/women-and-child-development/molestation

Shanbag case was a mockery of justice. The man deserved nothing less than death. I do not know if the case can still be revived or not.

 

[Aupmanyav]

More on Auna Shanbag: Hospital clueless of Aruna's service records

Authorities at the King Edward Memorial (KEM) Hospital appear to be clueless about the 'official status' of its former nurse Aruna Shanbaug, who lay there for 42 years in a vegetative state after suffering a brutal sexual assault till her death earlier this week.

The hospital management, however, are making frantic efforts to trace service records of Aruna, who was seen as the face of a debate on euthanasia and whose death after the gruelling ordeal was deeply mourned across the nation.

"We are trying to find out the details of Aruna's service. Since this incident took place 42 years back no one knows about the status of her job," Hospital Dean, Dr Avinash Supe, said. Asked how many days it may take to trace her service record, Supe said, "It will take probably one week. "

The officials are checking whether Aruna had been relieved from the job after she fell victim to the sexual assault in 1973 or she remained an employee till her retirement date, a hospital official, requesting anonymity, said. Aruna was assumed to be on the payroll of the hospital till 2006, when she was to retire had she been working at KEM normally, the official said.

They are also trying to find out her salary details besides such service benefits such as provident fund, in case she was not relieved from her job. However, being an old case, officials are finding it difficult to trace her service records.

"Not a single staff now working with KEM was in service with us at the time of that horrifying incident. The case is very old .. hence KEM and Bombay Municipal Corporation (BMC) may find it difficult to trace the information." sources at the hospital run by the civic body said. BMC Additional Commissioner Sanjay Deshmukh could not be reached for comment.
Hospital clueless of Aruna's service records | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis