Non-theist morality

[TurkeyOnRye]

Oh, and stealing is fine, as long as it isn't very noticable. I steal small things all the time, like pens, gum, little trinkets, chalk from class rooms... No one notices that they are even gone, so what is the harm? I like stealing things.

Amen to that. I steal Carmex and Burt's Bees on a regular basis. Why should I support large corporations for such small things? They are not going to miss that.

 

[yossarian22]

Tied together as a foundation for values, its arbitrary. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot (to name a few) didn't get up one morning and decide to perpetuate evil. They rationalized their actions based on facts as they saw them, on compassion (or lack of it) as they understood it.

Or perhaps the Transcendent Law as they understood it!
Naw... it couldn't be that, because that would be a bad interpretation.

Yes, I'm sure it's tiresome. So why not refute the logic with superior logic instead of begging the question?

Your comments are increasingly repetitive, inane, and generally pointless, so forgive me and others if we pay them little heed.

Now, what could the similarity between the DNA of everybody possibly mean for reason and compassion?

Hmmm. Seems consistency of thought is of no concern for some. They can't refute the logic, so they aggressively or passively dismiss it.
Oh, well. Nuthin' new. :angel2:

Indeed...

 

[Storm]

Wow thread revival. Thanks!

 

[Storm]

Are you Hispanic?

 

[UnTheist]

What?

 

[Yes Man]

Are you Hispanic?

I am!

 

[Storm]

OK, then you get to be Jesus.

 

[Yes Man]

Crud. :cover: I hope I don't disappoint.

 

[smidget]

I realize that the vast majority of atheists and agnostics are decent, intelligent people.

However, we live in a society whose shared ethos (and hence, law) is based on Judeo-Christian concepts of good and evil, sin and righteousness. Many J-C morals are obviously right on the money, i.e. cold-blooded murder, rape, and pedophilia are bad. (Yes, I realize that the Old Testament is pathetically immoral by modern standards. It ain't my book, so let's just stick with modern ethics.) We can ignore those. On the other hand, there are issues which are obviously based in dogma and rejected by many of us, i.e. homosexuality and premarital sex are bad. I don't see any reason to discuss those, either.... unless an non-theist actually adheres to them, which would fascinate me.

But there's a huge grey area, and that's what interests me. Examples:

Is it wrong to kill in defense of another?
I don't know. I think it depends on circumstance - eg if someone was attempting to kill the other etc. In this case I think it's acceptable. Whether it's right or wrong I'm not sure. There's some people that I would do my best to defend, whatever that might entail. Another interesting prob - wouldn't the person you'd killed for have a problem with the fact that they were alive because another was dead?

Is it wrong to steal food for one's dependents, if there are no alternatives?
I guess you could grade it as less bad to steal for people who have plenty/corporations where the food may go to waste or the money wouldn't be badly missed. If I were in this situation and I thought I could get away with it without being caught I think I would.

Do we as a society have a moral obligation to provide for the poor?
Yup.

Is the death penalty just, or immoral?
Not good.

Sexuality is a goldmine here:

Is promiscuity immoral? If so, where do you draw the line?
Not in itself. Harming others by doing it would be, but I think it could be possible to be openly (or maybe very secretively? But I think the hiding the truth from the people it's relevant to is wrong in itself) and not do harm.

What about polyamory/polygamy vs. monogamy?
I'm assuming polyamory means being in love with many people at once. I'd postulate that this would be just as common as being in love with just one. Personally, it tends to be that one person will eclipse other people, but I'd hold out for other people's freedom to be what they are. Hurting other people is probably more likely for polygamy/amory though?

....prostitution?
Don't have a prob with the prostitutes. Perhaps think it's a bit wierd of the people that go there.

These are all questions that I use my spirituality to explore, and hopefully answer. What do you use?

My morality is very simple and based upon the idea that people should do what makes them and other people happy to their best extent while avoiding hurting people

 

[Aupmanyav]

Good. Sage Vedavyasa had written eighteen puranas (Histories, Scriptures) including SrimadBhagawatam of 18,000 verses. Another sage asked what was important in these books, said:

'Ashtadasha puraneshu Vyasasya vachanam dwaya;
paropkaram punyaya, papaya parapeedanam.'

(Of the eighteen scriptures written by Sage Vedavyasa, two sayings are important;
to help others is merit, to pain others is sin.)

 

[Aupmanyav]

To answer the OP:

Is it wrong to kill in defense of another?: Defend one who is righteous, kill in case there is no alternative.
Is it wrong to steal food for one's dependents, if there are no alternatives?: Steal and give them food, accept your crime and punishment.
Do we as a society have a moral obligation to provide for the poor?: We do not have the right to enjoy if poor are not provided.
Is the death penalty just, or immoral?: It is not always immoral, just as killing is not always wrong.
Sexuality is a goldmine here: Don't get it. Sexuality is a part of family life. Pornography, no, no.
Is promiscuity immoral? If so, where do you draw the line?: Get married.
What about polyamory/polygamy vs. monogamy?: The traditions in your society are right.
Prostitution?: Unfair to women.

 

[sonofskeptish]

What is alarming to me is that some religious people seem to need someone watching to ensure they are "good". If nobody was watching, not even God, who'd flush the public restroom toilet more often... a religious person or a non-religious person?

 

[Daemon Sophic]

....snip....
But there's a huge grey area, and that's what interests me. Examples:


These are all questions that I use my spirituality to explore, and hopefully answer. What do you use?

You seem to be looking for personal answers, so I will only answer for myself.
Last question first - What do I use? - as MrSprinkles replied right off. "Reason, compassion, and facts."

Now then....

Is it wrong to kill in defense of another? No. But it really depends on circumstance.

Is it wrong to steal food for one's dependents, if there are no alternatives? Stealing is wrong. Asking for food is more reasonable. But if you are being starved (on purpose, and without mercy) then survival would override questions of morality.

Do we as a society have a moral obligation to provide for the poor? It's not a matter of obligation. It is a matter of logic and survival. Providing for the poor (in the form of increased education, and work opportunities) is better not just for them, but for EVERYONE. So you had better believe that society is best served by "providing" for the poor. :yes:

Is the death penalty just, or immoral? Not really. If it were possible to carry it out in a just/fair fashion, then it would be worthy of consideration as a punishment. However, hundreds of cases of proven innocent people having been put to death have shown (even 1 would have shown) that such an absolute punishment should not be utilized. Removing a threat to society, and hopefully adding to the education of the masses (and individual) is more important than retribution.

Sexuality is a goldmine here:
Is promiscuity immoral? If so, where do you draw the line? No. But it's stupid beyond words given the obvious risk of disease.

What about polyamory/polygamy vs. monogamy? Poly____ is fine, as long as (all of) the others are aware of exactly who/what is involved. This works as an answer for adultery too. If you are being secretive about it, then you have committed a breach of trust. :cover: ...and THAT is a no-no. :tsk:

....prostitution? Is it immoral? No.
EDIT: Prostitution is fine. Slavery (sexual or otherwise) is very, VERY bad.

 

[Alceste]

Is it wrong to kill in defense of another?

Not necessarily. It would depend whether there is a non-lethal way to acheive the same goal.

Is it wrong to steal food for one's dependents, if there are no alternatives?

Depends who you're stealing it from.

Do we as a society have a moral obligation to provide for the poor?

Yes.

Is the death penalty just, or immoral?

Both immoral and hypocritical.

Sexuality is a goldmine here:

Is promiscuity immoral? If so, where do you draw the line?

No, promiscuity is not immoral, provided all parties are consenting and steps are taken to avoid unpleasant consequences. I draw the line at poop and animals.

What about polyamory/polygamy vs. monogamy?

To each her own.

....prostitution?

I would prefer sex workers to have safe places to work, indoors, legally, and with access to services such as addiction counselling, health care and decent therapy for those who have simply stumbled into it from a troubled background.

These are all questions that I use my spirituality to explore, and hopefully answer. What do you use?

I'm a holistic pragmatist. What's good for others is generally good for me, and vice versa.