Non-theists:What does evidence of god look like?

[Kriya Yogi]

What possible purpose is accomplished by punishing someone who has no idea for what they are being punished for? Punishment is only worthwhile as a tool for teaching; if you don't know why you are being beaten, then the beating has no point, except perhaps to make the beater feel better.

And it's particularly horrendous to inflict an adult-sized punishment upon a (relatively) innocent child.

Well I've been told that some souls in the after life before they become reborn choose to selflessly let that karma happen at that time so the family can grow spiritually. It is our perception of these things that seem bad when sometimes it helps the soul or other souls become more spiritual. I know it seems hard to understand. Let me put it this way. Karma in essense is neutral. It is our perception that this body is real that causes us to see karma as bad karma. Sometimes there things that happen for different reasons that don't seem righteous, but in essence is helping us to become free in God quicker. He hates when we suffer and urges us all to get beyond our narrow identification of the ego and body. We are not this physical reality. We are the immortal blissful soul of God. Sometimes it takes suffering to finally turn to him, unfortunately.

 

[Smoke]

What evidence of God would look like depends on what the God in question looks like. Different god-claims have different implications.

Exactly.

In the case of an omnimax god, I can't imagine any way at all that his omnimax qualities could be demonstrated or perceived, so I take the claim to be specious by the very nature of it.

 

[Smoke]

What a load of horse fecal matter. That is one of the most ridiculous posts i've seen so far.

I agree. The Dharmic religions escape from many of the dangers of the Abrahamic religions, but they have their own dangers. One of them is that the idea of karma can lead to a failure of compassion if we believe that when anything bad happens to somebody, it's because he had it coming.

I've heard Buddhists as well as Hindus say this kind of thing, and I find it repulsive.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Who says we lose compassion just because its someones karma. Wouldn't be even more depressing if evil things happened to people for no reason and that in that belief God is allowing it to happen injustifyingly? In this way we know we can create a better future for ourselves by acting righteously and spiritually.

 

[Smoke]

Who says we lose compassion just because its someones karma.

Obviously, I don't believe that it has that effect on all Buddhists and Hindus. I'm a Buddhist myself, and think there's a great deal about Hinduism that's attractive. But it is a very real danger, and it does happen.

Wouldn't be even more depressing if evil things happened to people for no reason and that in that belief God is allowing it to happen injustifyingly?

Not to me. But then, I don't believe in God.

In this way we know we can create a better future for ourselves by acting righteously and spiritually.

I don't really care for the carrot-and-stick approach to religion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Who says we lose compassion just because its someones karma.

The implication of what you're suggesting is that any time someone suffers, it's their own fault and they deserve it. You don't see how that can harm a person's sense of compassion?

If the wise, powerful master of the universe has declared that a person's suffering is justified, why would we ever try to help that person? They're getting exactly what they deserve; to ease their suffering would be to deny justice.

Wouldn't be even more depressing if evil things happened to people for no reason and that in that belief God is allowing it to happen injustifyingly? In this way we know we can create a better future for ourselves by acting righteously and spiritually.

No, I don't think it would be more depressing. If there's no particular reason for bad things happening, then there's hope: it means that there's also no particular reason why to think that a solution is beyond our reach if we work at the problem long enough and hard enough.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

The implication of what you're suggesting is that any time someone suffers, it's their own fault and they deserve it. You don't see how that can harm a person's sense of compassion?

Well when someone is blind of the beauty within themselves and are driven by evil tendencies it causes them to create bad karma. The compassion all saints have for unenlightened men is the fact that they know not what they do to themselves by acting in this way. It's exactly why Jesus took on all of man's sins on the cross. It wasn't based on something they would do in the future. He was showing that he forgave them because they were blind by their own ignorance and were creating serious bad karma for themselves by treating Jesus in this way. He was taking on the burden of his disciples karma and possibly mankinds as well. Their compassion is knowing that all men won't be free of mistakes in actions until they attain perfection in God. In turn suffering will not cease until they free themselves from the illusion that we are separate from God. It's why Saints like Jesus and Yogananda come back to earth to show us the way to God. They have eternal compassion and understanding just as God does for they see and can relate as they have been through the ups and downs of life as well before they became free.

If the wise, powerful master of the universe has declared that a person's suffering is justified, why would we ever try to help that person? They're getting exactly what they deserve; to ease their suffering would be to deny justice.

Because the only way to save them from suffering is to turn on the light in their consciousness. That light is God's presence. God knows that it is not always a beings fault for their own suffering. They don't realize what they are causing for themselves by their own evil actions.

No, I don't think it would be more depressing. If there's no particular reason for bad things happening, then there's hope: it means that there's also no particular reason why to think that a solution is beyond our reach if we work at the problem long enough and hard enough.

That's fine. I just personally think it's easier to accept my bad karma if I know it's justified. I would be less likely to believe in God if I knew he allowed us to suffer randomely for no reason or actions on our part. It would go against his reputation as a good and God of Righteousness.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I would say some indirect evidence may work for me such as evidence that prayer works or a true miracle such as growing back a missing limb or restoring sight to a person with two glass eyes.

 

[gnostic]

Perhaps magically poofing people out of a burning building.

Does this mean turning (male) people "gay", while they are burning alive?