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Nord Stream 2

Stanyon

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Please keep in mind that just a few years ago German Intelligence agencies blamed Russian hackers not for Merkels loss (she won) but because she didn't get more votes that they think she should have.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Meanwhile, we were supposed to build the South Stream Pipeline, important to Austria and the Balkans. Now we are focusing on the TAP

A-gas-pipeline-network-of-the-European-continent.jpg
 
Jumi

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Milton Platt said:
Don't know enough about this. but I do know that whoever controls a country's energy sources controls the country.
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Germans don't seem to care about that control. As Putin joked years ago, they don't use coal and they're dismantling their nuclear power, where do they think energy comes from. Russia is happy to do business.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Jumi said:
Germans don't seem to care about that control. As Putin joked years ago, they don't use coal and they're dismantling their nuclear power, where do they think energy comes from. Russia is happy to do business.
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Having travelled extensively by train in Germany, I can assure you that they have made massive investments in wind power.
Gas, coal and other fossil fuels will soon run out.
The environment is equally important to Germany.
 
Jumi

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Altfish said:
Having travelled extensively by train in Germany, I can assure you that they have made massive investments in wind power.
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So they don't need Nord Steam 2. For some reason they buy from Russia anyway, can you think of the reason?

Altfish said:
Gas, coal and other fossil fuels will soon run out.
The environment is equally important to Germany.
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Of course, but like many others, they care about environment in their country but buy from countries that don't care about the environment.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Jumi said:
So they don't need Nord Steam 2. For some reason they buy from Russia anyway, can you think of the reason?

Of course, but like many others, they care about environment in their country but buy from countries that don't care about the environment.
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Economics, if there is a cheaper source currently available, why not take advantage of it. As long as they don't become reliant on Russia, there is no problem.

Unfortunately Germany are not the only hypocritical country on issues like that.
 
Jumi

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Altfish said:
Economics, if there is a cheaper source currently available, why not take advantage of it. As long as they don't become reliant on Russia, there is no problem.
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That, or people think Russians are really not that bad.

Altfish said:
Unfortunately Germany are not the only hypocritical country on issues like that.
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The hypocrisy everywhere. In Germany wind power is 18% according to google.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Jumi said:
That, or people think Russians are really not that bad.


The hypocrisy everywhere. In Germany wind power is 18% according to google.
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But renewables are almost 30% in Germany up from 3% in 1990.
Don't forget it still has plenty of coal too.
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
Jumi said:
That, or people think Russians are really not that bad.


The hypocrisy everywhere. In Germany wind power is 18% according to google.
Click to expand...
I suspect the point is that Germany, like most industrialised countries, will continue to need a proportion of fossil fuel for some time and Merkel has set her face against nuclear power and presumably wants to reduce dependence on coal as a first priority, since that is far worse for CO2 emission than gas. So they will need gas, probably for a couple of decades more at least.

I think myself that being dependent on Russian gas would be a terrible strategic error. I can only imagine that Germany must have a plan B for alternative gas supply, in the event that the Russians try to use gas as a geopolitical lever.
 
Stanyon

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Jumi said:
Trump can't stop them. It's a risk to Nato.
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What is funny is the Germans blamed Russian meddlers in the election but upon further investigation they concluded it was far-right wingers from the United States. I wonder if this pipeline deal had something to do with the blame shifting, maybe they realized they jumped on the "blame Russia" train too quick and got off, I can only guess.
 
Jumi

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Altfish said:
But renewables are almost 30% in Germany up from 3% in 1990.
Don't forget it still has plenty of coal too.
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Yeah it's been slow. Dismantling previous systems before the new ones can take their place ensures that this pipeline has a use. I don't think they're bad guys, there is a supply and demand.

My country also gets a lot of their energy from Russia, because French Areva can't seem to be able to deliver their nuclear plant. They've been making a lot of money by doing a bad job and besides them, Russians are selling their power to us.
 
Jumi

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Stanyon said:
What is funny is the Germans blamed Russian meddlers in the election but upon further investigation they concluded it was far-right wingers from the United States. I wonder if this pipeline deal had something to do with the blame shifting, maybe they realized they jumped on the "blame Russia" train too quick and got off, I can only guess.
Click to expand...
That's what folks in Europe do, blame Russia but then continue business. Probably not the best way to get a deal, but Russians don't seem to be complaining.
 
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