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North Carolina Magistrate refuses to marry interracial couple.

fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
An interracial couple tried to get married in the state of North Carolina. They were refused not by one but by two Magistrates in their local courthouse. Both cited religious reasons for refusing to marry them.

source
we went to our local courthouse to receive a civil marriage license from one of the magistrates there, so we could commit our lives to each through a legal union. I was so excited. People always say your wedding day is supposed to be one of the happiest days of your life, and I was expecting mine to be exactly that.

But when we walked into that government office together, we were told that the magistrate on duty wouldn’t give us a marriage license. I was flabbergasted. We had planned everything, we had all our paperwork and we were legally eligible to get married.

So why wouldn’t he marry us? The reason, it turned out, was because Thomas is African-American, and I am white. The magistrate told us that marrying an interracial couple went against his religious beliefs. Our happy day quickly turned into a nightmare.

I was so surprised that a government official was using his own personal religious beliefs to deny us a civil marriage license that I didn’t know what to say. There was a second magistrate on duty, but he, too, said he wouldn’t marry us, because doing so would violate his religious beliefs. One of them took out a Bible and began to lecture us about their religious views and why Thomas and I should not be together.
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Should Government employees be allowed to refuse to marry couples if doing so goes against their sincerely held religious views?
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
fantome profane said:
Should Government employees be allowed to refuse to marry couples if doing so goes against their sincerely held religious views?
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In a single word answer, "No!"

I would have Donald Trump phone them and say, "You're fired."


Longer answer, "No!"
The reason is because the law of the land dictates what an individual can and cannot do. Religious sensitivities do not and cannot supersede a given law. The reason they cannot trump the law is that even though the law exists people would still face uncertainty due to personal prejudice. That just doesn't cut it as it makes a mockery of the law and moves it into the civil rights violation arena because you have denied two people based on racial discrimination.

Exit question: What on earth religion forbids inter-racial marriage again?
 
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RabbiO

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
fantome profane said:
An interracial couple tried to get married in the state of North Carolina. They were refused not by one but by two Magistrates in their local courthouse. Both cited religious reasons for refusing to marry them.

source


Should Government employees be allowed to refuse to marry couples if doing so goes against their sincerely held religious views?
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If you read the story you should have noted that this was a look back to 40 years ago when the couple was looking to get married.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
RabbiO said:
If you read the story you should have noted that this was a look back to 40 years ago when the couple was looking to get married.
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I noticed that. I am fully aware of that and was full aware of that when I made this thread. I didn't mention it because it doesn't matter. The question is just as relevant today as it was then.

I think it is important to learn from history, otherwise we will be doomed to repeat it.
 
catch22

catch22

Active Member
Interracial marriages aren't part of my religion or the Old Laws. Israelites weren't to marry non-Israelites for idolatry/false gods, as in, they didn't believe in the God of Israel.

There is absolutely no skin color involved there... Now, if the couple were a Jew and a Muslim, you might have a leg to stand on with the excuse, from both religions perspectives (but in which case you'd have two non-practicioners, so could you even hold them to it?)

I think the responsibility of a license issuer, according to the land, is to follow the law of the land first. If doing so conflicts with your personal beliefs, find a different occupation. In this modern era, that would now apply to same sex couples.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
fantome profane said:
From the article:It wasn't "Tobin's Spirit Guide" they were quoting at them.
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Oh, I don't doubt that fantome, I've just never heard a Christian seriously reject inter-racial marriage based on scripture. It's a bit of an eye-opener. Creative interpretation, perhaps?
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
YmirGF said:
Oh, I don't doubt that fantome, I've just never heard a Christian seriously reject inter-racial marriage based on scripture. It's a bit of an eye-opener. Creative interpretation, perhaps?
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Religion was actually the most common argument made against interracial marriages, and the argument was made by people of the Christian religion. Creative interpretation I don't know, I am not going to start debating how to interpret scripture. But creative or not I can tell you it was a very common interpretation.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
fantome profane said:
Religion was actually the most common argument made against interracial marriages, and the argument was made by people of the Christian religion. Creative interpretation I don't know, I am not going to start debating how to interpret scripture. But creative or not I can tell you it was a very common interpretation.
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Well, not being American, I haven't run into this. Like, it was somewhat scandalous here in Canada in the 50's but not much since...
 
catch22

catch22

Active Member
fantome profane said:
Religion was actually the most common argument made against interracial marriages, and the argument was made by people of the Christian religion. Creative interpretation I don't know, I am not going to start debating how to interpret scripture. But creative or not I can tell you it was a very common interpretation.
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It isn't a Christian ideal. "Christians" might have done this, but so goes the story; God, the great scapegoat? I don't know. It isn't a biblical concept, though.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
catch22 said:
It isn't a Christian ideal. "Christians" might have done this, but so goes the story; God, the great scapegoat? I don't know. It isn't a biblical concept, though.
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Frankly my dear, I don't give a ...

The point is that these Magistrates in this case said that interracial marriage was against their religion. And I believe that they believed that interracial marriage was against their religion. It is not up to the government to determine whether they are following a "true religion", the point is that this was a sincerely held religious belief. That is the criteria that people are still using today to get religious exemption from the law. My point is that we can't allow civil servants to deny people marriages because of their "sincerely held religious belief". And we can't get into a debate about correct interpretation, because that does not matter to this issue.

(p.s.) please don't interpret this thread as an attack on Christianity. Because honestly I don't care about Christianity enough to attack it.
 
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LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
fantome profane said:
Should Government employees be allowed to refuse to marry couples if doing so goes against their sincerely held religious views?
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Sure... as long as they accept the consequences.

I'm not knowledgeable about US laws and such, but I would expect those magistrates to either renounce their posts (since they refuse to fulfill their work duties) or to be expecting some serious challenges coming their way, which hopefully will have the same final result, albeit with more effort and expense.

At the same time, I'm fairly certain that there are racial discrimination laws from the late 1960s that apply here as well. Laws that are expected to disregard the sincerity of their religious views entirely, as well as their status as government agents.

Edited to add: Now that I see that it was some 40 years ago... I wonder what happened to them exactly?
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
YmirGF said:
Oh, I don't doubt that fantome, I've just never heard a Christian seriously reject inter-racial marriage based on scripture. It's a bit of an eye-opener. Creative interpretation, perhaps?
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They take the Jewish law about marrying non-Jews and twist the interpretation to include skin color, and they twist the Genesis verses (and others) about things being with their own kind.
 
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