Not Mature

[Secret Chief]

Another OP for the More Mental **** From The USA thread (a sticky).

 

[Valjean]

Therefore this pregnancy is fine and no one should be blamed?

It's too late for blame. It's a fait accompli.
It may well be an unfortunate result of a rash, impulsive act, but its pernicious sequelae are avoidable. Her choice to resume her previous situation was unjustly usurped by the state

Makes sense to me, it's their child.

It's her life, and they're adversely affecting it.

Would you like that your parents aborted you so you would not exist now and enjoy life?

I would be entirely indifferent to it.
I was in no physical or psychic distress a year before I was born. Had I never been born this non-condition would have persisted.

 

[paradox]

I would be entirely indifferent to it.

You said that only to support what you said but in fact nobody is indifferent about their existence

I was in no physical or psychic distress a year before I was born. Had I never been born this non-condition would have persisted.

One war criminal said something similar, that killing babies is fine because babies don't know they exist nor feel like grown up people.
unborn are unconscious just like grown up people who are unconscious in hospital, just because they feel nothing doesn't mean we should end them.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Florida court rules teenager ‘not mature enough’ to have abortion

So this girl is not mature enough to make the decision have an abortion, but is absolutely mature enough to raise a child? ****ing what?

You think minors should make life and death decisions? That's a slippery slope.

 

[Valjean]

Maybe you didn't know but there is also post-abortion trauma.
A minor is definitely not capable to understand what this means unless it can experience it,
do you think it would be fair to allow a minor to go trough that experience?

"That experience" is a largely manufactured one, induced by the public opprobrium of a religious movement. Fortunately, it's a very rare, and avoidable, 'condition'.
The usually deleterious sequelæ of an untenable pregnancy, on the other hand, are entirely avoidable.

 

[Valjean]

You said that only to support what you said but in fact nobody is indifferent about their existence

The non-existent are indifferent.

One war criminal said something similar, that killing babies is fine because babies don't know they exist nor feel like grown up people.
unborn are unconscious just like grown up people who are unconscious in hospital, just because they feel nothing doesn't mean we should end them.

Now these are actually good points, and much debated. Personally, though, I concede moral consideration to the born and extant, and withhold it from the potential.

 

[Valjean]

You think minors should make life and death decisions? That's a slippery slope.

When the decision will significantly affect her life for decades to come, I think she should have a say in it.
Teens may be impulsive, but they're not stupid. Sit them down, and they're capable of reasonable, dispassionate and reflective decisions.

 

[paradox]

"That experience" is a largely manufactured one, induced by the public opprobrium of a religious movement. Fortunately, it's a very rare, and avoidable, 'condition'.
The usually deleterious sequelæ of an untenable pregnancy, on the other hand, are entirely avoidable.

feel free to google out, you don't have to take my words for granted.

The non-existent are indifferent.

how is then possible you exist if you were "non-existent"?

 

[fantome profane]

You think minors should make life and death decisions? That's a slippery slope.

Minors make life and death decisions every day, probably many times in a day.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Maybe you didn't know but there is also post-abortion trauma.
A minor is definitely not capable to understand what this means unless it can experience it,
do you think it would be fair to allow a minor to go trough that experience?

There is also post-partum depression after giving birth. Plus that whole having your body rearranged and ripped apart.

 

[paradox]

There is also post-partum depression after giving birth. Plus that whole having your body rearranged and ripped apart.

from what I see post-partum goes away 3-5 days, is that comparable to post-abortion trauma?

 

[SkepticThinker]

from what I see post-partum goes away 3-5 days, is that comparable to post-abortion trauma?

It can last for months or years, actually. Especially if left untreated. And you ignored the part about the person's body being rearranged and ripped apart.

As to "post-abortion trauma:"

"People often do experience intense emotions just before and immediately after having an abortion. But experts haven’t found any evidence to suggest these emotions linger or have a lasting impact on mental health.

In addition, there’s no official diagnosis of post-abortion syndrome in either the International Classification of Diseases or the recent edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

On the contrary, research overwhelmingly suggests abortion does not, in most cases, cause a trauma response or contribute to any lingering distress."
Post-Abortion Syndrome: Is It Real?

 

[paradox]

And you ignored the part about the person's body being rearranged and ripped apart

I don't know what you mean by that?

"People often do experience intense emotions just before and immediately after having an abortion. But experts haven’t found any evidence to suggest these emotions linger or have a lasting impact on mental health.

I didn't mean to say that it would have an impact on metal health, but rather what this feeling is about.
all those feelings which the body signals, suggest that the person done something wrong, otherwise there would be no such feelings.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't know what you mean by that?

I mean that pregnancy permanently changes one's body. And when one gives birth, their body is basically torn apart in multiple places.

I didn't mean to say that it would have an impact on metal health, but rather what this feeling is about.
all those feelings which the body signals, suggest that the person done something wrong, otherwise there would be no such feelings.

That is what you said and what you're talking about here. "Feelings" affect mental health.
There isn't much evidence that "post-abortion trauma" is something most need to be worried about. On the other hand, post-partum depression is a well known mental health issue.

 

[The Hammer]

Would you like that your parents aborted you so you would not exist now and enjoy life?

I wouldn't be here to care. So I don't care.

And from the fact that my mother had me at 17, yes. I think it could have been the better decision to abort.

 

[paradox]

That is what you said and what you're talking about here. "Feelings" affect mental health.
There isn't much evidence that "post-abortion trauma" is something most need to be worried about. On the other hand, post-partum depression is a well known mental health issue.

You know well when people do something wrong for the first time in their life, the first thing that bothers them is negative emotions such as guilt or shame, exception to this are psychopats due to lack of feelings for others.

For example, what does person feel when he\she for the first time kills another person?

negative feelings are similar to anything that the person does for the first time, abortion is not an exception.
also ex. we all stole something in our life, but when done for the first time negative feelings do appear, especially if caught in stealing.

These negative feeling tell that what what ever you did was wrong.
On another side doing good things never provokes any such feeling, it's rather simple nature, you don't have to be smart to figure this out on your own.

 

[The Hammer]

She could have as well take a pill to prevent conception, was she not mature enough to make that decision?

And?? Accidents happen. Even when using multiple forms of contraceptives. They aren't perfect.

I had a child with a girl on the pill, while I was also using condoms. **** happens.

 

[paradox]

I wouldn't be here to care. So I don't care.
And from the fact that my mother had me at 17, yes. I think it could have been the better decision to abort.

This is not your honest opinion.

 

[The Hammer]

This is not your honest opinion.

It absolutely is. Who are you to question it?

My mother would have had a much better life (and any kids she had in the process), had I been aborted and she waited until finishing high school to have kids.

Instead, I was born premature due to her being stressed with the pregnancy, never knew my bio Dad because he was trash and ran off. And got to watch my mother not achieve her dreams. Wonderful right?

 

[paradox]

It absolutely is. Who are you to question it?

My mother would have had a much better life (and any kids she had in the process), had I been aborted and she waited until finishing high school to have kids.

Instead, I was born premature due to her being stressed with the pregnancy, never knew my bio Dad because he was trash and ran off. And got to watch my mother not achieve her dreams. Wonderful right?

I could agree about possible achievements of your parents but,
are you not happy to be a live? would you rather be never born? you can't really lie about that.