Nothing lasts forever in this life

[Spirit of Light]

They are merely "beliefs" when they exist only in your head.
Once you publicly state these beliefs with certainty (as you do), they become "claims".

Claim: to say that something is true although it has not been proved and other people may not believe it (OED)

You are making claims about god and Bahaullah. Deal with it.

But is it a problem that she believe it to be so? Isnt her belief acceptable?

 

[KWED]

Simple. I do not need proof, because I have good evidence.

If it was "good evidence", others would find it convincing.
They don't.
It is not "good evidence". It is "unsupported claims" that may appeal to certain types of people. It is only cognitive dissonance/confirmation bias/wishful thinking, etc that makes you thing there is any "evidence".
Many millions of people around the world and throughout history have believed stuff that is not true. They still do it. You aren't special in that respect.

 

[KWED]

I do not make any claims, I only have beliefs.

A belief stated with any certainty is a claim.
You can't redefine words just because they don't suit you.

I believe my beliefs are true,

Loving the tautology.

but that is not me saying I am right and you are wrong.

If you do not accept that your beliefs might be wrong, and that I might be right about Bahaullah being dishonest or delusional, that is exactly what you are saying.
Yet again, your poor grasp of English lets you down.

No, He did not, because He did not tell me what to believe. I chose my beliefs based upon my own independent investigation.

So you don't always accept what Bahaullah said?
But you previously said that you "can only go by what Bahaullah wrote"
Flip/flop
Make your mind up.

“Bahá’u’lláh asked no one to accept His statements and His tokens blindly. On the contrary, He put in the very forefront of His teachings emphatic warnings against blind acceptance of authority, and urged all to open their eyes and ears, and use their own judgement, independently and fearlessly, in order to ascertain the truth. He enjoined the fullest investigation and never concealed Himself, offering, as the supreme proofs of His Prophethood, His words and works and their effects in transforming the lives and characters of men.”

Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 8

And yet Bahaullah said - "Were He to pronounce the right to be the left or the south to be the north, He speaketh the truth and there is no doubt of it."
So you are obliged to simply accept whatever he says as god's messenger, "without doubt", even if it seems nonsensical. That is the definition of "blindly following".

I believe Baha'u'llah was God's Messenger because of the evidence.

But the only "evidence" you have ever presented is stuff he said, so it is just classic circular logic, as I explained.

I believe everything Baha'u'llah said because I believed He was God's Messenger after I looked at the evidence that establishes that His testimony is the Truth.

So before you accepted him as god's messenger, you couldn't assume that he was not dishonest or delusional.
So - before you accepted him as god's messenger, why did you assume what he said was reliable? It can't have been what he said, because at that stage it was not reliable.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is

His own Self.

Before you established that these words were accurate and truthful, how could you know any of it was accurate and truthful. What independent sources and evidence did you consult which verified his claims?

And why do you think so many people find "his self" and "his testimony" so unconvincing?
(This is where you claim that you beed to believe in it before it is believable )

 

[muhammad_isa]

Those are just claims. There is no "evidence" to support them.

What you may think is neither here nor there.
I asked a simple question [not to you] .. do you believe in God?

God with a capital 'g' refers to the monotheistic God in the Bible and Qur'an.
End of !
Anybody who claims that the Creator belongs solely to them, is either narrow-minded or uninformed.

 

[KWED]

No, I am certain because of what he did.

And what did he do that convinces you that what he said was true?
Be specific.

It is not my job to show that to anyone else, only to myself.

Yes it is, if you come on here making those claims. Otherwise we can just dismiss them as the usual nonsense.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yes it is, if you come on here making those claims. Otherwise we can just dismiss them as the usual nonsense.

And who is the judge of that?? Oh i know....it is YOU who are the judge over all religious people in the world......

 

[KWED]

I accept that some Hindu beliefs are true, but not the belief in reincarnation.

So you claim that some Hindu beliefs are untrue (wrong), even though they just as sincere in their beliefs and convinced that have "evidence" as you are in yours.

So, why are you right and they wrong, in this regard?
(This is where you cry "But it's not about being right or wrong, it's about being true or not true". )

 

[KWED]

I did not say that I accept that God may not exist. I said "it is possible that my beliefs are not true."

If you accept that it is possible that your beliefs are not true, and one of those beliefs is that god exists, then you therefore accept that it is possible that god does not exist.
QED.

I don't accept that.

Because you are in denial and suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I did not admit that I cannot know if my beliefs are true.

So, how do you know that your beliefs are true? (Remember, "know" not "believe")

Everything that follows from the belief, including our eternal destination.

So, what are the "implications" of there boing an afterlife of some kind?
And are they different for you, me, Hindus, etc?

 

[KWED]

No, that is not what I was saying. I don't know how you derived that from what I said.
What a person believes does not make their belief true. It is either true or false.

You said that you won't know if your beliefs are true until after you die (although you have also said that you are 100% certain they are true ), and that the same applies to Christians, Muslims, etc.
So until we die, all beliefs are equally true and not true. Schrodinger's Religion. And no one alive can be aware of the results. And most dead people won't know either. So it your beliefs are not true, you won't know.

 

[KWED]

But why would a Baha'i joke use a Christian type of heaven? Why would Hindus and Buddhists be in some mansion in a Christian heaven? Those souls that believe in reincarnation would be waiting to be sent back to Earth and enter a different body.

Then the Baha'i afterlife has people that developed their spiritual side more than others would be closer to God. But I think they have everyone continuing to progress. Which, I suppose, even the worst of us?

But Bahais claim that Hindus are wrong, so in a Bahai afterlife they won't actually be reincarnated.

 

[KWED]

It means he said nothing about Mormonism to be precise. After all, He lived in a Moslem country, and almost all His Tablets addressed to Muslims, Babis and Baha'is. The scope where what it was known what He would have said was limited at that time. There were no Western Baha'is at that time.

So although he is supposed to have had magical knowledge of all the world's religions, he really only knew about what he had been exposed to growing up.
Yeah, that makes more sense.

 

[KWED]

I and others believe in God and have found, upon examination, Darwinian outline of evolution of life to be contrary to reason,

In what way do you find evolution by natural selection to be "contrary to reason"?
Do you actually just mean "contrary to your beliefs"?

 

[KWED]

Thank you for sharing this important verse. I am happy you share Baha'i teaching so often.

And yet you'll no doubt complain if I post Bahai teachings that promote homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments (or just ignore them).

 

[KWED]

No, Baha'u'llah did not say anything about animals in heaven.

So how do you know there are no animals in heaven?

 

[Spirit of Light]

And yet you'll no doubt complain if I post Bahai teachings that promote homophobia, sexual discrimination and barbaric punishments (or just ignore them).

Dude, i know about the teaching, but i am not telling others what is right for them.

 

[KWED]

Honestly it sounds like Baha’i faith truly bothers you on a daily basis.
Spending so much time, studying belief you don't believe, only to spread your view of it?

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but it's pretty important, so - this is a religious debate forum. It's where people with an interest in religious debate come to debate religion. Once you grasp this basic concept, you should be less confused.

How can you be sure your understanding is the right one?

How can anyone be sure that their understanding of something that can never be verified is the right one?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but it's pretty important, so - this is a religious debate forum. It's where people with an interest in religious debate come to debate religion. Once you grasp this basic concept, you should be less confused.

How can anyone be sure that their understanding of something that can never be verified is the right one?

Oh i understand the concept, that is why i keep asking you questions, and i will continue to do so until you start to reply to them, insted of commenting on your view of my understanding

 

[KWED]

My answer is not rational to You. My answers in religious discussion or debate are based on my belief. It means i believe the scriptures i read to be true. I ponder for months and years about the true meaning behind the teaching. And no i don't just read the text and say, ok now I got it, now I believe everything. No, it has to go along how my life is in daily life too.
I have to live according to my understanding of the teaching.

Am I doing it right every day? No of course not. I do a lot of mistakes and even probably sin a heck of a lot too.

To get accept from God is not easy, it shouldn't be. It is a daily struggle every day to find our own faults in life and correct our own way of speaking acting and thinking.
I believe the Baha'i teaching is the closest i have found to explain how I can change my own being to be accepted by God when I die.

Am I right in my belief? I hope so. But since it is a belief there is always a chance i am wrong.

All you have done here is illustrate the irrational nature of your beliefs.
There is no evidence to support the existence of gods, so no claims to be their messengers can be assumed to be true.
Therefore insisting that a person was a messenger of a god simply because they claimed to be one is irrational.
Claiming that their claims are evidence for god just because you believe their is doubly irrational.

 

[KWED]

You can do it your way but remember that there is only two areas in RF that actually is for debate and not discussion.
Religious debate and non religious debate forum section.
Other part of it is for discussion only

And where do you constantly attack me for debating religion?
Correct!
In the "Religious Debate" section.

So, remind me what the problem is?

 

[Spirit of Light]

All you have done here is illustrate the irrational nature of your beliefs.
There is no evidence to support the existence of gods, so no claims to be their messengers can be assumed to be true.
Therefore insisting that a person was a messenger of a god simply because they claimed to be one is irrational.
Claiming that their claims are evidence for god just because you believe their is doubly irrational.

Well, it is my belief.

You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.