Nothing vs Never Ending

[RedJamaX]

Creationism vs the Big Bang both want to proove where it all came from... The Beginning !?!? The Beginning of what??
Time?
Space?

What's easier to comprehend?

There was NO TIME, NO SPACE, Nothing! Then all of the sudden, either...
1. A single infintecimal spec exploded into eveything we can see, even galaxies 15 Billion light-years away
2. Some All-Powerful Being floating around for an unknown eternity (in nothingness) decides, "Well, I'm bored, how 'bout some Light!?"

OR

Everything we see has always been here. There is no Beginning, and there is no End, to Space or Time. Personally, I find the concept of Nothing, far less likely than the concept of Forever.

For the record, I do not beleive in Creationism, I was rasied Christian and became Atheist. I also think the Big Bang theroy is wrong.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Creationism vs the Big Bang both want to proove where it all came from... The Beginning !?!? The Beginning of what??
Time?
Space?

What's easier to comprehend?

There was NO TIME, NO SPACE, Nothing! Then all of the sudden, either...
1. A single infintecimal spec exploded into eveything we can see, even galaxies 15 Billion light-years away
2. Some All-Powerful Being floating around for an unknown eternity (in nothingness) decides, "Well, I'm bored, how 'bout some Light!?"

OR

Everything we see has always been here. There is no Beginning, and there is no End, to Space or Time. Personally, I find the concept of Nothing, far less likely than the concept of Forever.

Of course, this is all entirely speculative since neither you nor any of the world's greatest scientific minds really, fully understands the physical properties or laws that existed before the singularity.

For the record, I do not beleive in Creationism, I was rasied Christian and became Atheist. I also think the Big Bang theroy is wrong.

Based on what?

 

[RedJamaX]

Of course it's speculative, but technically, isn't ALL theory speculative... whether it is scientific theory or religious belief?

My own theory... which at least one other scientist has recently theorized as well (sorry, I do not have a reference or a name, I simply remember thinking "Wow, I might be on to something")

Everything we see in nature is repetative and duplicated, and sometimes on an exponential scale. There are black holes from collapsed stars that float through the galaxies, and there are exponentially larger black holes at the center of Galaxies. Some of these Black holes have jets of material spewing out one side as it is pulled through the opposite...

It's not hard to think of the possiblity that, beyond our reach is a black hole of enormous proportions which we simply cannot fathom, that created a jet of material so large from another side of our un-seen universe and that is what became the building blocks of our "known" universe.

When they pointed the Hubble Telescope at what they thought was "Empty Space", they found THOUSANDS of Galaxies. I refuse to beleive that the Universerve simply ends at 15 Billion years ago, that's just our current viewing limitation. If there is some light from galxies and stars that exist 20 billion light years away... How could we possibly see them if they didn't exist there 20 billion years ago?? Not only can we not reach the speed of light, we cannot see past it either.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

There was NO TIME, NO SPACE, Nothing! Then all of the sudden

Impossible without the existence of time.

 

[RedJamaX]

Then all of the sudden

Impossible without the existence of time.

Precisely

 

[PolyHedral]

Creationism vs the Big Bang both want to proove where it all came from... The Beginning !?!? The Beginning of what??
Time?
Space?

What's easier to comprehend?

There was NO TIME, NO SPACE, Nothing! Then all of the sudden, either...
1. A single infintecimal spec exploded into eveything we can see, even galaxies 15 Billion light-years away
2. Some All-Powerful Being floating around for an unknown eternity (in nothingness) decides, "Well, I'm bored, how 'bout some Light!?"

OR

Everything we see has always been here. There is no Beginning, and there is no End, to Space or Time. Personally, I find the concept of Nothing, far less likely than the concept of Forever.

For the record, I do not beleive in Creationism, I was rasied Christian and became Atheist. I also think the Big Bang theroy is wrong.

Time has always existed. That doesn't mean it can't have had a beginning.

 

[RedJamaX]

Impossible without the existence of time.

Time has always existed. That doesn't mean it can't have had a beginning.

Ummmm
:yes: Yes it does.

WAIT A MINUTE!!!
You're RIGHT!! I found it in Wikipedia... March 3, 1923!!! The beginning of TIME.

:no:

 

[Koldo]

Ummmm
:yes: Yes it does.

WAIT A MINUTE!!!
You're RIGHT!! I found it in Wikipedia... March 3, 1923!!! The beginning of TIME.

:no:

To say 'there was no time....' you need to use the past tense.
So it requires the past to exist before time existed. Which is...not possible.

 

[RedJamaX]

To say 'there was no time....' you need to use the past tense.
So it requires the past to exist before time existed. Which is...not possible.

Exactly... Time always has been and always will be... no beginning or end.

 

[PolyHedral]

As mentioned, time can have a beginning and always exist. The fact that time always exists is a tautology; however, it doesn't exclude there being a first moment of time to exist. (The mistake is thinking that there is a previous moment "before" that one. There isn't.)

 

[tumbleweed41]

Do time, space, energy, matter or any of the physical laws of our universe exist beyond the boundaries of our ever expanding universe?

 

[Koldo]

Exactly... Time always has been and always will be... no beginning or end.

It's just like what PolyHedral said in the last post on first page...

 

[JohnLeo]

Everything we see has always been here. There is no Beginning, and there is no End, to Space or Time. Personally, I find the concept of Nothing, far less likely than the concept of Forever.

The trouble with that is that it does not square with the fact that the universe is expanding. Everything in it is moving away from everything else. If we do a computer simulation of the movements of galaxies and run it backward in time, then the universe becomes compressed to a very dense point (singularity) some 13.7 billion years ago.

 

[JohnLeo]

I refuse to beleive that the Universerve simply ends at 15 Billion years ago, that's just our current viewing limitation. If there is some light from galxies and stars that exist 20 billion light years away... How could we possibly see them if they didn't exist there 20 billion years ago?? Not only can we not reach the speed of light, we cannot see past it either.
You're forgetting that space is curved just like the surface of the earth is curved. Nothing on earth can be more than 12,500 miles distant from anything else. To speculate about something being 50,000 miles distant is meaningless. Some scientists have speculated that our universe may be the three dimensional surface of a four dimensional hypersphere. That, though, is impossible to visualize.

 

[RedJamaX]

Do time, space, energy, matter or any of the physical laws of our universe exist beyond the boundaries of our ever expanding universe?

I don't beleive in the "Expanding Universe"... Not to say that the galaxies are not moving apart, we have scientific evidence of that. But I beleive our Universe extends far beyond 15 billion light years. Just because something didn't exist in a part of space 20, 30, or 40 billion years ago doesn't mean that it isn't there now.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that our Universe does indeed stop at 15 billions light-years... So, with my theory, is you were to sail past our 15 billion light-year limitaion of viewing... and travel another 100 billion light years away to find more galaxies, YES, those galaxies would also follow the same laws of physics as our own.

Now here is the question... If you traveled another 100 billion light-years of empty space the found another collection of galaxies that was 15 billion light-years across, would that constitute another Universe? I'm not sure that the definition for Universe is so clearly defined. Some definitions say "all matter", other definitions say "known matter".

 

[RedJamaX]

You're forgetting that space is curved just like the surface of the earth is curved. Nothing on earth can be more than 12,500 miles distant from anything else. To speculate about something being 50,000 miles distant is meaningless.

No, I get that, I just think they're wrong... It suggests that space is contained...

So, what's outside of the space?? Just doesn't make sense.

 

[PolyHedral]

I don't beleive in the "Expanding Universe"... Not to say that the galaxies are not moving apart, we have scientific evidence of that. But I beleive our Universe extends far beyond 15 billion light years. Just because something didn't exist in a part of space 20, 30, or 40 billion years ago doesn't mean that it isn't there now.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that our Universe does indeed stop at 15 billions light-years... So, with my theory, is you were to sail past our 15 billion light-year limitaion of viewing... and travel another 100 billion light years away to find more galaxies, YES, those galaxies would also follow the same laws of physics as our own.

Now here is the question... If you traveled another 100 billion light-years of empty space the found another collection of galaxies that was 15 billion light-years across, would that constitute another Universe? I'm not sure that the definition for Universe is so clearly defined. Some definitions say "all matter", other definitions say "known matter".

It's not possible to travel more than 13-14 billion light years away from Earth at this time. (It will be possible in the future.) If you were to do so, you would be destroyed, because you would collide with the Big Bang. It is not possible to see further than 13 billion ly or so, because the universe is opaque that far into the past.

Specifically, time and space are interchangeable, and the speed of light is the exchange factor. If you travel through space, you also travel into the past of your origin - however, the only possible way to travel further into the past than the amount of time it took you to get there is to travel faster than light, which is impossible.

Hence, the universe has a boundary (the Big Bang) but it's impossible to reach it.

 

[RedJamaX]

The trouble with that is that it does not square with the fact that the universe is expanding. Everything in it is moving away from everything else. If we do a computer simulation of the movements of galaxies and run it backward in time, then the universe becomes compressed to a very dense point (singularity) some 13.7 billion years ago.

Yup, I read that too... I just think they're wrong... Something they are missing, because that doesn't make sense either.

 

[JohnLeo]

Time has always existed. That doesn't mean it can't have had a beginning.

Actually, no, it appears that time has not always existed. Don't forget we can't talk about time without including space because they are linked. That's why scientists refer to "spacetime." Thus space cannot exist without time nor can time exist without space. At the instant of the big bang, time, space, and all the matter in the universe came into being. Whether this had a natural or supernatural cause is open to discussion. However speculating about "before" the big bang is meaningless. "Before" and "after" only exist within the context of a time dimension. No time dimension. no before or after. Are there other dimensions of time? Some theorists speculate that other dimensions of time may exist and they may be circular instaed of linear. But things get very weird when you go there.

 

[PolyHedral]

Time has always existed. That doesn't mean it can't have had a beginning.

Actually, no, it appears that time has not always existed. Don't forget we can't talk about time without including space because they are linked. That's why scientists refer to "spacetime." Thus space cannot exist without time nor can time exist without space. At the instant of the big bang, time, space, and all the matter in the universe came into being. Whether this had a natural or supernatural cause is open to discussion. However speculating about "before" the big bang is meaningless. "Before" and "after" only exist within the context of a time dimension. No time dimension. no before or after. Are there other dimensions of time? Some theorists speculate that other dimensions of time may exist and they may be circular instaed of linear. But things get very weird when you go there.

You didn't actually contradict my statement. The Big Bang is the beginning of coherent spacetime, but that spacetime must, by definition, always have existed.