"NRA Issues Call for White Supremacy and Armed Insurrection"

[Sunstone]

So you think banning the NRA is going to eradicate the lunatic fringe in our society?

Of course not. But it shouldn't be whipping them up either.

 

[Rival]

Is that a concession that your original claim there's nothing wrong with the commercial because it's "accurate" was poorly thought out?

Saying it is accurate is not a moral claim. It is accurate. Leftists do riot. They do call Trump Hitler. The ad is just using these facts to play on people's fear. That is literally all I am saying.

 

[Sunstone]

Saying it is accurate is not a moral claim. It is accurate. Leftists do riot. They do call Trump Hitler. The ad is just using these facts to play on people's fear. That is literally all I am saying.

All leftists? A majority of leftists? or a minority of leftists?

 

[BSM1]

Of course not. But it shouldn't be whipping them up either.

Sooo...you're saying that these crazies would be fit for humanity if there were no NRA? Absolute nothing else would bring them out of the woodwork to perpetrate their mindless mayhem?

 

[Rival]

All leftists? A majority of leftists? or a minority of leftists?

Some. Ever since Trump was elected they haven't really shut up, so of course someone is going to capitalise on it.

 

[Sunstone]

Sooo...you're saying that these crazies would be fit for humanity if there were no NRA?

Nothing I said states or implies that. You're just grasping for straws.

 

[Sunstone]

Some. Ever since Trump was elected they haven't really shut up, so of course someone is going to capitalise on it.

So leftists somehow brought this upon themselves? The NRA bears no responsibility for it?

 

[Rival]

So leftists somehow brought this upon themselves? The NRA bears no responsibility for it?

By rioting whenever people like Milo want to speak, yes, yes they have. All the NRA did was put out an advert trying to sell guns, which is their whole raison d'etre. If no-one is scared of anything, no-one will feel the need to own a gun. They used a current issue which is in the public eye to sell their product. I'm not saying it's right, but it's pretty standard process.

 

[Sunstone]

By rioting whenever people like Milo want to speak, yes, yes they have. All the NRA did was put out an advert trying to sell guns, which is their whole raison d'etre. If no-one is scared of anything, no-one will feel the need to own a gun. They used a current issue which is in the public eye to sell their product. I'm not saying it's right, but it's pretty standard process.

The NRA ad does not say "The fraction of a fraction of a fraction of all leftists who rioted when Milo wanted to speak". Instead, it implies that all leftists are like that. I could probably find a Noahide who killed someone. How would you feel if I started airing commercials trying to scare people into purchasing guns based on "The Noahide threat"?

I'm glad you're not saying the ad is right. Because it isn't. It's a piece of work that has the potential to inspire violence against innocent people. Condoning it is like condoning yelling fire in a crowded theater because someone lit a cigarette.

 

[Rival]

The NRA ad does not say "The fraction of a fraction of a fraction of all leftists who rioted when Milo wanted to speak". Instead, it implies that all leftists are like that. I could probably find a Noahide who killed someone. How would you feel if I started airing commercials trying to scare people into purchasing guns based on "The Noahide threat"?

I'm glad you're not saying the ad is right. Because it isn't. It's a piece of work that has the potential to inspire violence against innocent people. Condoning it is like condoning yelling fire in a crowded theater because someone lit a cigarette.

The ad doesn't even mention leftists.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

By rioting whenever people like Milo want to speak, yes, yes they have.

How so? Why is it okay to threaten innocent people with violence because someone else who fits under the same broad political label as them?

All the NRA did was put out an advert trying to sell guns, which is their whole raison d'etre. If no-one is scared of anything, no-one will feel the need to own a gun. They used a current issue which is in the public eye to sell their product.

The NRA didn't just use a current issue, they've blown out of rational proportions and they told outright lies doing it. You'd honestly be forgiven for thinking America was facing a communist insurrection from the way that ad went on.

I'm not saying it's right, but it's pretty standard process.

Which isn't the issue - it's the incendiary language involved at a time when political tensions are high.

The ad doesn't even mention leftists.

Just because you don't say someone's name in conversation doesn't mean you're not talking about them.

 

[Sunstone]

The ad doesn't even mention leftists.

Oh, my mistake. Gee, I'm absolutely sure now that no one can be reasonably certain who they were referencing.

 

[Rival]

How so? Why is it okay to threaten innocent people with violence because someone else who fits under the same broad political label as them?

I'm not saying it's okay to threaten them; I'm saying I'm not surprised that it has happened given the way some of them have behaved.

The NRA didn't just use a current issue, they've blown out of rational proportions and they told outright lies doing it. You'd honestly be forgiven for thinking America was facing a communist insurrection from the way that ad went on.

This is what marketing does. It creates a problem then offers you a solution.

 

[Rival]

Oh, my mistake. Gee, I'm absolutely sure now that no one can be reasonably certain who they were referencing.

Also at @A Greased Scotsman
What I'm getting at is that they never offered any % of leftists. The use of the word 'they' works in general terms to simplify the issue. The ad simply would not have worked as well if it said "Well, a minority of people are rioting..."

They're just employing some immoral business sense.

 

[David1967]

The point is, how would they feel encouraging Muslims Americans the same freedom to own, possess and carry firearms.

Law abiding Muslim Americans can own a firearm same as any other law abiding American.

 

[David1967]

So leftists somehow brought this upon themselves? The NRA bears no responsibility for it?

Perhaps in the same sense that Msnbc bears responsibility for the nut who shot the congressman at the ball field.

 

[columbus]

So you think banning the NRA is going to eradicate the lunatic fringe in our society?

I didn't say anything about banning anyone. I'm pretty big on free speech.
But that said, I do consider them a "corporate instigator of terrorism". I explained why. If you think I am mistaken, why?
And if you do see some responsibility on their part, what do you think would be appropriate? I am inclined to push their members to hold them accountable, since they are the ones sponsoring the "message". Who knows? Maybe they will take some responsibility, the way that they often expect Muslims and such to do.
Maybe not.
Tom

 

[BSM1]

Nothing I said states or implies that. You're just grasping for straws.

Uhhh...

Of course not. But it shouldn't be whipping them up either.

 

[BSM1]

I didn't say anything about banning anyone. I'm pretty big on free speech.
But that said, I do consider them a "corporate instigator of terrorism". I explained why. If you think I am mistaken, why?
And if you do see some responsibility on their part, what do you think would be appropriate? I am inclined to push their members to hold them accountable, since they are the ones sponsoring the "message". Who knows? Maybe they will take some responsibility, the way that they often expect Muslims and such to do.
Maybe not.
Tom

I think you'll find that most, if not all, NRA members are responsible gun owners. These are people that believe in their right to protect their families, persons, and possessions with firearms. These are not lunatics or simply ignorant rednecks. I would challenge you to find one NRA member that has committed the unthinkable atrocity that was seen by a Bernie Saunders supporter (who, if I am not mistaken, is a big "gun control" advocate) in a ball park in Virginia last month.

 

[columbus]

I think you'll find that most, if not all, NRA members are responsible gun owners. These are people that believe in their right to protect their families, persons, and possessions with firearms. These are not lunatics or simply ignorant rednecks.

Let me repeat the salient part of my post, bolded for emphasis.

"Guns are the solution" is not a liberal message. Not all conservatives promulgate that, but almost everyone who does qualifies as a conservative in my book. From the NRA to the talk radio hosts to Trump, the premise that guns and violence are the solution is a conservative trope, not a liberal message.
So yeah, when the NRA sends messages like "An armed society is a polite society" and "Go get more guns and ammo before the government takes away your 2nd amendment rights" and stuff like that they are one of the biggest, if not the very top, corporate instigator of violence and homegrown terrorism in the USA. Those messages don't only go out to mentally stable, trained, responsible citizens. They also go out to the nut cases and people off their meds.

I would have a lot less interest in increased gun control if there were a reliable way to keep guns away from the unfit. But I don't know of one, not in a society that puts so much emphasis on personal liberty and autonomy. So it's the guns themselves that need to be regulated heavily. IMHO.
But your implying that Bernie Sanders is somehow more responsible for the shooting in Washington DC than the NRA is ludicrous, to be polite about it.
Tom