Obama and the Republican Party

[Draka]

Well campaigning is not necessarily for an office, it can be for an idea. When Obama wants something, he prefers to get in front of people and talk, when there are decisions to be made he goes plays golf or as in the Benghazi debacle goes on a campaign. He liked running for President but doesn't really like the job. As you can tell I have total disdain for the man as a leader.

No! Tell us it isn't so! Why, you just ooze with love for the man and his boundless leadership abilities. We would have never guessed you don't care for him, let alone have *gasp* "total disdain" for him as a leader. My gods, the sheer revelation is enough to make me feel faint. I think I must go lay down now. :faint:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You support Democrats, Obama & Obamacare as pursuing the ordained course.

Yes and I've been known throughout my voting years to support republicans as well...

You oppose Republicans, who want to derail what is meant to be.

I oppose them giving the CR has absolutely nothing to do with the ACA. If they move forward in trying to have it included they know full well it won't pass the senate and even if it did the President would veto it. So if they'd pass a Clean CR they could work on legislation to improve or change the ACA later.

So you reason that Obama is entitled to have his way, & if the Big Two butt heads & gov shuts down, it's solely the Pubs' fault.

The ACA was passed, adjudicated and voted on in the election by the people. The people spoke. Again...The CR has nothing to do with the ACA.

It's this sense of entitlement which leads you astray.

What entitlement are you going on about? This has nothing to do with a "sense of entitlement".

Your dwelling on political gamesmanship of one side merely reinforces your own perspective.

No I'm not. The ACA is law. Pass a Clean CR and work on policy later.

Each side has the ability to accommodate the other to prevent shut down.

Republicans don't want accommodations. The CR has nothing to do with whether the ACA law proceeds or not unless one party doesn't want it to. Since it's settled law it will proceed regardless of a shutdown. Republicans know this yet they're still willing to go forward....

They're taking the fray to the brink,
each risking the gubmint will sink.
There's plenty of blame
when chicken's the game.
We'll soon see which party will blink.

All this aside. Had Boehner appointed conferees when both budgets were submitted to him we wouldn't be at this point. So blame is on one side only and that's the republicans. Democrats agree that we should proceed with regular order and submitted their budget. They've been requesting for months that Boehner appoint conferees for budget reconciliation. He hasn't. His refusal to do so has lead us to the point of trying to pass a Clean CR that would fund the government for a couple weeks in the hopes that Democrats could work with republicans on a long term budget......

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes and I've been known throughout my voting years to support republicans as well...

Still...my Dem loyalty detector goes off when pointed in your direction.
And my Obama loyalty detector......you pegged the needle & broke the darn thing.

I oppose them giving the CR has absolutely nothing to do with the ACA. If they move forward in trying to have it included they know full well it won't pass the senate and even if it did the President would veto it. So if they'd pass a Clean CR they could work on legislation to improve or change the ACA later.
The ACA was passed, adjudicated and voted on in the election by the people. The people spoke. Again...The CR has nothing to do with the ACA.
What entitlement are you going on about? This has nothing to do with a "sense of entitlement".

You believe that Obama is entitled to keep Obamacare, & that his willingness to shut down government rather than lose it is proper.

I don't personally have a dog in this fight. Whether Obamacare lives or dies, government closes or stays open, or Pubs or Dems win, I can't influence it nor will it affect me materially. I just notice that each side is fighting for its agenda, & the preferred technique is (lamentably) brinksmanship. Blame strikes me as irrelevant.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Yes and I've been known throughout my voting years to support republicans as well...


I oppose them giving the CR has absolutely nothing to do with the ACA. If they move forward in trying to have it included they know full well it won't pass the senate and even if it did the President would veto it. So if they'd pass a Clean CR they could work on legislation to improve or change the ACA later.

The ACA was passed, adjudicated and voted on in the election by the people. The people spoke. Again...The CR has nothing to do with the ACA.

What entitlement are you going on about? This has nothing to do with a "sense of entitlement".

No I'm not. The ACA is law. Pass a Clean CR and work on policy later.

Republicans don't want accommodations. The CR has nothing to do with whether the ACA law proceeds or not unless one party doesn't want it to. Since it's settled law it will proceed regardless of a shutdown. Republicans know this yet they're still willing to go forward....

All this aside. Had Boehner appointed conferees when both budgets were submitted to him we wouldn't be at this point. So blame is on one side only and that's the republicans. Democrats agree that we should proceed with regular order and submitted their budget. They've been requesting for months that Boehner appoint conferees for budget reconciliation. He hasn't. His refusal to do so has lead us to the point of trying to pass a Clean CR that would fund the government for a couple weeks in the hopes that Democrats could work with republicans on a long term budget......

LOL, no clean CR :sorry1:

The Republicans have Obama by the short and curlies and they will not let loose.

The American people are tired of kicking the can down the road.

Both sides need to figure this out NOW.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Still...my Dem loyalty detector goes off when pointed in your direction.
And my Obama loyalty detector......you pegged the needle & broke the darn thing.

Has absolutely nothing to do with my overall voting record. I'm not a down ballot straight party line voter. Never have been....

You believe that Obama is entitled to keep Obamacare, & that his willingness to shut down government rather than lose it is proper.

I believe it is law and the people voted for the President to re-elect him. The presidential race centered around it and the other guy lost. So YES....The ACA stays. And seeing as though the CR has nothing to do with the ACA...republicans should passed a Clean CR and work on a long term budget just as Democrats have been requesting for months now...

I don't personally have a dog in this fight.

Of course you don't. You're in the extreme minority so you've aligned yourself with a lot of republican thinking... No one on RF disputes this but you.

Whether Obamacare lives or dies, government closes or stays open, or Pubs or Dems win, I can't influence it nor will it affect me materially. I just notice that each side is fighting for its agenda, & the preferred technique is (lamentably) brinksmanship. Blame strikes me as irrelevant.

But you just said there was enough blame to go around. So which is it. Enough blame to go around or is blame irrelevant?

Democrats have complied with republicans wanting regular order, submitted a budget to be reconciled with their Ryan budget. Boehner has not appointed conferees even though Democrats have been requesting him to for months now. The ACA law is settled with Democrats. The CR, due to the Speaker's lack of appointing conferees, is now needed to fund the government. A Clean CR should be put forward and they could work on ACA policy later.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

LOL, no clean CR :sorry1:

The Republicans have Obama by the short and curlies and they will not let loose.

Then own it.....Stop trying to say it's democrats want to shut down government.

The American people are tired of kicking the can down the road.

The American people include Democrats as well. We have agreed that regular order is best. Both budgets reside with the Speaker. He has not appointed conferees to reconcile both budgets that were given to him months ago. Democrats have been requesting he do so that the Democrat budget and the Ryan Budget be reconciled...Yet the Speaker hasn't done a thing. So who's kicking the can down the road here. A Clean CR is needed because the Speaker has failed to do an essential part of his job. We're at the brink because this is House republicans want it.

Both sides need to figure this out NOW.

It has been. The ACA has nothing to do with passing a Clean CR. Pass it and work on ACA policy later during budget reconciliation.......sheesh!!!!!

 

[Revoltingest]

Has absolutely nothing to do with my overall voting record. I'm not a down ballot straight party line voter. Never have been....

Fictitious meters never lie!

I believe it is law and the people voted for the President to re-elect him.

And he has the power to change the law by simply signing the bill which guts its funding.
Laws (like DOMA) are not cast in concrete, & may be dumped.

The presidential race centered around it and the other guy lost. So YES....The ACA stays. And seeing as though the CR has nothing to do with the ACA...republicans should passed a Clean CR and work on a long term budget just as Democrats have been requesting for months now...

You know....those emoticons lose effectiveness when over-used.

Of course you don't. You're in the extreme minority so you've aligned yourself with a lot of republican thinking... No one on RF disputes this but you.

You seek confirmation in numbers & in my position being a minority one? Oh, so lame.
As I said, it won't affect me, & it isn't clear whether things in general will be better or worse.
I really don't care whether Obamacare survives or not.
And if you're going to insult me by calling me a Republican, at least spell it properly (capitalize the "R"), bub.

But you just said there was enough blame to go around. So which is it. Enough blame to go around or is blame irrelevant?

Both are. Blame can be assigned, but when both parties are at fault, it becomes pointless to dwell on finger pointing instead of a practical solution.

Democrats have complied with republicans wanting regular order, submitted a budget to be reconciled with their Ryan budget. Boehner has not appointed conferees even though Democrats have been requesting him to for months now. The ACA law is settled with Democrats. The CR, due to the Speaker's lack of appointing conferees, is now needed to fund the government. A Clean CR should be put forward and they could work on ACA policy later.

One side wants Obamacare, but the other doesn't.
Both sides are ready to shut down government.
You think your side is right & the other is wrong.
It looks different when one doesn't take a side.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The government does not have to shut down, the house passed a bill to fund the government all but the ACA. The ACA is unfunded law.

Harry Reed is the one playing games here. Both sides are all in now.

I hope the government does shut down. Starve the beast!

 

[Revoltingest]

I hope the government does shut down. Starve the beast!

Oh, I love it when you talk dirty!

 

[Reverend Rick]

Here is my take on healthcare:

Everyone gets it.

No exceptions for unions, politicians or anyone else.

No private insurance.

You want socialism lets do it right.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

And he has the power to change the law by simply signing the bill which guts its funding. Laws (like DOMA) are not cast in concrete, & may be dumped.

He doesn't need to gut or defund the ACA since it has nothing to do with passing a Clean CR.

You know....those emoticons lose effectiveness when over-used.

But it's true nonetheless.

You seek confirmation in numbers & in my position being a minority one? Oh, so lame.

If you feel that way then why state your position of irrelevancy on the matter?

As I said, it won't affect me, & it isn't clear whether things in general will be better or worse. I really don't care whether Obamacare survives or not.

OK....

And if you're going to insult me by calling me a Republican, at least spell it properly (capitalize the "R"), bub

.

........Republican | Define Republican at Dictionary.com

I didn't "call" you a Republican. I insinuated you espouse to "republican thinking"

Both are. Blame can be assigned, but when both parties are at fault, it becomes pointless to dwell on finger pointing instead of a practical solution.

I've already stated the practical solution. You and I simply disagree is all.

One side wants Obamacare, but the other doesn't.
Both sides are ready to shut down government.

Passing a clean CR has nothing to do with the ACA. So it's not our side willing to shutdown anything. A Clean CR was sent back to the House with the sole purpose of funding the government. Both sides need to go to the table for budget reconciliation. This is something the Speaker of the House has to initiate by appointing conferees. Until then we're going to see more of this.

You think your side is right & the other is wrong.

I think a Clean CR is needed and budget reconciliation is needed for long term funding. It's not about right or wrong per-se.

It looks different when one doesn't take a side.

But you have....you just don't think you have. You place blame on both sides but believe the President should dump funding for the law. So you ultimately sympathize with Republicans who advocate defunding the law. I don't have a problem with your position if you don't..... :sad:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Here is my take on healthcare:

Everyone gets it.

No exceptions for unions, politicians or anyone else.

No private insurance.

You want socialism lets do it right.

I'm fine with that. It certainly would be much cheaper than the various hybrid healthcare system we currently have....

 

[Revoltingest]

He doesn't need to gut or defund the ACA since it has nothing to do with passing a Clean CR.

Nonetheless, if gov shuts down, would'a had the power to stop it, but chose not to.

But it's true nonetheless.

Oh, Jeez....I'm dealing with a guy who has "The Truth".

If you feel that way then why state your position of irrelevancy on the matter?

That's quite a non sequitur.

........Republican | Define Republican at Dictionary.com

I didn't "call" you a Republican. I insinuated you espouse to "republican thinking"

Ya know, I figured you'd make this desperate attempt to avoid admitting your mistake.
Nothing I've covered has anything to do with the country's being a republic or not.

Passing a clean CR has nothing to do with the ACA. So it's not our side willing to shutdown anything.

But you are willing to shut down government rather than lose Obamacare.
You're just uncomfortable admitting it.

But you have....you just don't think you have. You place blame on both sides but believe the President should dump funding for the law. So you ultimately sympathize with Republicans who advocate defunding the law. I don't have a problem with your position if you don't..... :sad:

How do you support this view you attribute to me?
I need more than general stereotyping, btw.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Nonetheless, if gov shuts down, would'a had the power to stop it, but chose not to.

He chose to have a basic CR sent back to the House to fund the government. House Republicans chose to reject it. They know the Senate won't past the provision and they know the President won't sign it. Instead of funding the government with the Clean CR that they were sent they're choosing to fight an unwindable fight. They're choosing to shut the government down on principal. This could have been avoided months ago through regular or and budget reconciliation but they chose not to do that.

But you are willing to shut down government rather than lose Obamacare.
You're just uncomfortable admitting it.

Funding the government until a long term budget agreement is established has nothing to do with the ACA. The ACA gets funded regardless.

How do you support this view you attribute to me?
I need more than general stereotyping, btw.

Do you not place blame on both sides?

Do you not agree that the ACA should be defunded?

You've stated more than once that you don't care whether it's funded or not but continue to say that (Obama could simply "choose" to not be responsible for a government shutdown by simply gutting funding for the law)....but I haven't heard you state once that it's unreasonable to try and defund a law that has nothing to do with funding the government.....Which leads me to believe you agree with Republicans. Personally I don't care if you do....:sad:

 

[Reverend Rick]

I will not mince words, I don't want the ACA funded even if we have to shut down the government.

 

[Reverend Rick]

We need to cut the credit card in half. Let the government choose to do what it wants to on the funds it collects. No more credit!

Starve the beast!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I will not mince words, I don't want the ACA funded even if we have to shut down the government.

Makes no sense....Shutting down the government means the ACA STILL gets funded....so what's the point. Those who say (advocate) a shut down like you did in your next post shows that you may not be completely aware of the various functions the government performs....It's not just about the military.....

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Makes no sense....Shutting down the government means the ACA STILL gets funded....so what's the point. Those who say (advocate) a shut down like you did in your next post shows that you may not be completely aware of the various functions the government performs....It's not just about the military.....

I am aware -- too D many.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

And here we go again. There was no vote taken yesterday on the Senate bill. Boehner didn't even bring it to the floor to be voted on because he knew straight up that the Clean CR would pass. So now that the Senate tabled his bill he doesn't want to bring up the Clean CR Bill he now wants to send a bill back to the Senate that would delay the individual mandate.....So is it really about keeping the government open if all he has to do is pass a simple CR? He could bring the Clean CR up for a vote BUT HE WON'T.....!!!

Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate - Jake Sherman and John Bresnahan - POLITICO.com

The House could pass a clean continuing resolution, or CR, with Democratic support — GOP sources Monday morning signaled this option was possible. Boehner, Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) and Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) would be compelled to find roughly 120 Republicans in favor of this approach in order to ensure that the majority of the GOP conference is on board.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I am aware -- too D many.

Too many in your opinion but many are neededed nonetheless. I will agree that many need to be consolidated or scrapped. I've advocated this many time here at RF...so I'm not one for a ever growing government.