Observations promoting Intelligence behind life & support systems

[Hockeycowboy]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

2) The Cambrian Explosion. Separate creative events. (Where are the obvious precursors? Surely they’re there...right?) The mammalian Explosion, 66 mya, is similar.

3) The sheer diversity of organic body plans. Those living and extinct, it numbers over a billion species! (Darwinian processes have no evident creative power, to explain such scale we observe.... oops, there’s empirical data again!)

4) Irreducibly complex systems. Like the bacterial flagellar motor (which apparently came after the T3SS), the blood-clotting cascade, and others, suggested by Behe.

(I was told, by @Dan From Smithville , that this has been refuted...but he provided no reference.)

These are just some obstacles to evolutionary mechanisms. But these evidences support an Intelligence behind them. Antony Flew finally recognized this.

The purposeful nature of these examples, indeed of all systems, imply design.

Many organisms attack humans (and other creatures) and make us sick, even kill us.
Was this part of the original design? No.
Adam’s rebellion created many problems. But when we read Isaiah 11:6-9, esp.vs 9, it tells us that peace “will” exist, according to Jehovah’s purpose. Ephesians 1:10 states God’s will is “to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth, through Christ.”

More evidence will be posted.

 

[dfnj]

You might find this video interesting in terms of reductionism from molecular biology not panning out:

 

[ratiocinator]

More evidence will be posted.

More?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

2) The Cambrian Explosion. Separate creative events. (Where are the obvious precursors? Surely they’re there...right?) The mammalian Explosion, 66 mya, is similar.

3) The sheer diversity of organic body plans. Those living and extinct, it numbers over a billion species! (Darwinian processes have no evident creative power, to explain such scale we observe.... oops, there’s empirical data again!)

4) Irreducibly complex systems. Like the bacterial flagellar motor (which apparently came after the T3SS), the blood-clotting cascade, and others, suggested by Behe.

(I was told, by @Dan From Smithville , that this has been refuted...but he provided no reference.)

These are just some obstacles to evolutionary mechanisms. But these evidences support an Intelligence behind them. Antony Flew finally recognized this.

But the purposeful nature of these examples, indeed of all systems, imply design.

Many organisms attack humans (and other creatures) and make us sick, even kill us.
Was this part of the original design? No.
Adam’s rebellion created many problems. But when we read Isaiah 11:6-9, esp.vs 9, it tells us that peace “will” exist, according to Jehovah’s purpose. Ephesians 1:10 states God’s will is “to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth, through Christ.”

More evidence will be posted.

You being an expert in all things science, I would expect you are aware of the references that IR has been refuted. I did not think I would need to hold the hand of an expert and lead them through the literature.

I suppose you have abandoned responding to questions on the other thread?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

More?

Shhh! Don't tell him. He thinks he is posting evidence. Just smile and nod.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You being an expert in all things science, I would expect you are aware of the references that IR has been refuted. I did not think I would need to hold the hand of an expert and lead them through the literature.

I suppose you have abandoned responding to questions on the other thread?

‘Hold my hand’? Your attempt to belittle is noted.

Your lack of reference, also noted.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Shhh! Don't tell him. He thinks he is posting evidence. Just smile and nod.

Yep, I wouldn’t expect much else.

 

[dfnj]

1)
These are just some obstacles to evolutionary mechanisms. But these evidences support an Intelligence behind them. Antony Flew finally recognized this.

There is a third possibility here. The mechanisms explained by Darwinian evolution are not enough. There maybe additional mechanism that yet to be discovered or proven out that will augment the theory of evolution.

Dubbing these yet undiscovered mechanisms as "intelligence behind them" is just more superstitious nonsense. You can't just make extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence.

There is absolutely no evidence of intelligence design when it comes to life. My own body proves it to me that the pain coming from my knees everyday all throughout the day is because my knees are not designed very well. Or at least lack the necessary healing abilities to fix my torn maniscuses.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

‘Hold my hand’? Your attempt to belittle is noted.

Your lack of reference, also noted.

You portray yourself as an expert. Wouldn't an expert know the literature and the current state of hypotheses and speculation?

I am sure this hurts so much coming from the guy that was building up to persecuting me for my Christianity.

Why don't we stick to the topic.

Common knowledge does not require reference. At this point, it is common knowledge that irreducible complexity is a flawed and failed argument.

 

[Left Coast]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

2) The Cambrian Explosion. Separate creative events. (Where are the obvious precursors? Surely they’re there...right?) The mammalian Explosion, 66 mya, is similar.

3) The sheer diversity of organic body plans. Those living and extinct, it numbers over a billion species! (Darwinian processes have no evident creative power, to explain such scale we observe.... oops, there’s empirical data again!)

4) Irreducibly complex systems. Like the bacterial flagellar motor (which apparently came after the T3SS), the blood-clotting cascade, and others, suggested by Behe.

(I was told, by @Dan From Smithville , that this has been refuted...but he provided no reference.)

These are just some obstacles to evolutionary mechanisms. But these evidences support an Intelligence behind them. Antony Flew finally recognized this.

But the purposeful nature of these examples, indeed of all systems, imply design.

Have you ever brought up these points/questions to an evolutionary biologist or paleontologist? If not, why not?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yep, I wouldn’t expect much else.

You didn't post evidence. You posted this entire list on another thread and I ripped it to shreds, point by point and there was no response from you about that at all. You just ran over to another thread and posted it again. At least you mentioned that you were made aware that irreducible complexity was debunked.

If you are trying to establish yourself as an expert in biology and evolution, you are failing miserably at it.

 

[dfnj]

You didn't post evidence. You posted this entire list on another thread and I ripped it to shreds, point by point and there was no response from you about that at all. You just ran over to another thread and posted it again. At least you mentioned that you were made aware that irreducible complexity was debunked.

If you are trying to establish yourself as an expert in biology and evolution, you are failing miserably at it.

This thread has already degraded into a pissing contest. Can we agree to just make assertions, provide supporting commentary, but just let people have their own opinions?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You didn't post evidence. You posted this entire list on another thread and I ripped it to shreds, point by point and there was no response from you about that at all. You just ran over to another thread and posted it again. At least you mentioned that you were made aware that irreducible complexity was debunked.

If you are trying to establish yourself as an expert in biology and evolution, you are failing miserably at it.

You did no such thing, wow, sad

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You did no such thing, wow, sad

LOL! You are right it is sad. But you are confused about where that feeling should be directed.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You did no such thing, wow, sad

When I shredded it, you didn't respond to that. What is that about? As an expert, aren't you able respond meaningfully to the points I made? You send some mixed messages.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You might find this video interesting in terms of reductionism from molecular biology not panning out:

From what I heard, it sounds interesting. 1.5 hours, though! I'll have to finish it later.

Thank you.

 

[dfnj]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

Making the assertion "It is design" is quite a big leap.

Here's my way of thinking about it. Every living cell has exactly the same structures. Animals all follow the same basic layout. For example, fish have two eyes. We have two eyes. Fish have two nostrils. We have two nostrils. Fish have a bone spine. We have a bone spine. Fish have a mouth. We have a mouth. Fish have a poop hole. We have a poop hole.

Given all the similarities an orderly progression from single cell life to life having billions of cells it's kind of hard NOT to conclude there is a natural evolution to the sequence. I agree some of the mechanisms around how life forms or shapes still need to be worked out. But for the most part, it seems pretty obvious to me, given the similarities between ALL living cells and animals, there's something in common going on.

I would argue evolution IS the intelligent designer. Obviously animals are copulating for a reason!

 

[dfnj]

From what I heard, it sounds interesting. 1.5 hours, though! I'll have to finish it later.

Thank you.

Thanks for being open minded. The thing is people spend their whole life studying evolutionary biology. I think we all need to have a little humility when it comes to how smart other people can be.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

When I shredded it, you didn't respond to that. What is that about? As an expert, aren't you able respond meaningfully to the points I made? You send some mixed messages.

This is 'shredding'?

<a href="Why are Jehovah's Witnesses reluctant to discuss their faith?">Why are Jehovah's Witnesses reluctant to discuss their faith?</a>

It's the only response you gave, with any substance. It refutes nothing!

Lol.

 

[Jose Fly]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

Two logical fallacies: 1) false dichotomy (if evolution can't explain it, then "design" wins by default), and 2) argument via empty assertion ("it is design").

2) The Cambrian Explosion. Separate creative events. (Where are the obvious precursors? Surely they’re there...right?) The mammalian Explosion, 66 mya, is similar.

Same thing.

3) The sheer diversity of organic body plans. Those living and extinct, it numbers over a billion species! (Darwinian processes have no evident creative power, to explain such scale we observe.... oops, there’s empirical data again!)

Same thing.

4) Irreducibly complex systems. Like the bacterial flagellar motor (which apparently came after the T3SS), the blood-clotting cascade, and others, suggested by Behe.

Same thing.

(I was told, by @Dan From Smithville , that this has been refuted...but he provided no reference.)

Step-by-step evolution of vertebrate blood coagulation. - PubMed - NCBI

These are just some obstacles to evolutionary mechanisms. But these evidences support an Intelligence behind them.

Again, mere assertion.

Antony Flew finally recognized this.

Flew was a philosopher, so he has no authority in the area of evolutionary biology.

Many organisms attack humans (and other creatures) and make us sick, even kill us.
Was this part of the original design? No.
Adam’s rebellion created many problems. But when we read Isaiah 11:6-9, esp.vs 9, it tells us that peace “will” exist, according to Jehovah’s purpose. Ephesians 1:10 states God’s will is “to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth, through Christ.”

As I asked earlier (and you ignored), that still doesn't explain how the genetic sequences and biochemical pathways that pathogens employ to infect came about. If they are the result of changes to "God's original design", that means they came about naturally, which means you've refuted your entire premise (natural mechanisms cannot generate complexity).

More evidence will be posted.

You've yet to post any. All you've posted are logical fallacies, empty assertions, and religious stories.