Observations promoting Intelligence behind life & support systems

[Hockeycowboy]

Appreciate your amicable attitude.

Here's my way of thinking about it. Every living cell has exactly the same structures. Animals all follow the same basic layout. For example, fish have two eyes. We have two eyes. Fish have two nostrils. We have two nostrils. Fish have a bone spine. We have a bone spine. Fish have a mouth. We have a mouth. Fish have a poop hole. We have a poop hole.

Not plant life. That's a huge part!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Two logical fallacies: 1) false dichotomy (if evolution can't explain it, then "design" wins by default), and 2) argument via empty assertion ("it is design").

But I thought evolution did explain it!
That's what we are all being told.

Lol.

 

[Jose Fly]

But I thought evolution did explain it!
That's what we are all being told.

Lol.

That's it? That's the full extent of your reply?

 

[Audie]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

2) The Cambrian Explosion. Separate creative events. (Where are the obvious precursors? Surely they’re there...right?) The mammalian Explosion, 66 mya, is similar.

3) The sheer diversity of organic body plans. Those living and extinct, it numbers over a billion species! (Darwinian processes have no evident creative power, to explain such scale we observe.... oops, there’s empirical data again!)

4) Irreducibly complex systems. Like the bacterial flagellar motor (which apparently came after the T3SS), the blood-clotting cascade, and others, suggested by Behe.

(I was told, by @Dan From Smithville , that this has been refuted...but he provided no reference.)

These are just some obstacles to evolutionary mechanisms. But these evidences support an Intelligence behind them. Antony Flew finally recognized this.

The purposeful nature of these examples, indeed of all systems, imply design.

Many organisms attack humans (and other creatures) and make us sick, even kill us.
Was this part of the original design? No.
Adam’s rebellion created many problems. But when we read Isaiah 11:6-9, esp.vs 9, it tells us that peace “will” exist, according to Jehovah’s purpose. Ephesians 1:10 states God’s will is “to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth, through Christ.”

More evidence will be posted.

You post a lot of evidence of something
but its not what you think.

 

[ratiocinator]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

2) The Cambrian Explosion. Separate creative events. (Where are the obvious precursors? Surely they’re there...right?) The mammalian Explosion, 66 mya, is similar.

3) The sheer diversity of organic body plans. Those living and extinct, it numbers over a billion species! (Darwinian processes have no evident creative power, to explain such scale we observe.... oops, there’s empirical data again!)

4) Irreducibly complex systems. Like the bacterial flagellar motor (which apparently came after the T3SS), the blood-clotting cascade, and others, suggested by Behe.

To expand on my previous answer - there is no evidence here.

1. This is a (rather basic) question. Evolution explains purpose.
   
   
2. Seems to be another question, or some sort of statement.
   
   
3. Is a statement and a false claim (that Darwinian processes have no evident creative power).
   
   
4. Is something that has been refuted endless times (google it, I found multiple refutations within minutes). In any case "irreducible complexity" is an argument from incredulity/ignorance.

No evidence at all.

If you were at all interested, the answers to your questions are all easy to find - it's basic stuff. Don't creationists have any arguments that haven't already been done to death and answered over and over again?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Thanks for posting that link, it was just abstract. I downloaded the PDF, and am reading it.

As I asked earlier (and you ignored), that still doesn't explain how the genetic sequences and biochemical pathways that pathogens employ to infect came about. If they are the result of changes to "God's original design", that means they came about naturally, which means you've refuted your entire premise (natural mechanisms cannot generate complexity).

Now, don't present a straw-man. I said micro-evolution occurs, did I not?
If that even happened. Human immune system is not functioning like it was designed. (At one time, I was immune to poison ivy, sumac , etc. Not anymore.)
So I think I did answer your question.

 

[Nakosis]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

2) The Cambrian Explosion. Separate creative events. (Where are the obvious precursors? Surely they’re there...right?) The mammalian Explosion, 66 mya, is similar.

3) The sheer diversity of organic body plans. Those living and extinct, it numbers over a billion species! (Darwinian processes have no evident creative power, to explain such scale we observe.... oops, there’s empirical data again!)

4) Irreducibly complex systems. Like the bacterial flagellar motor (which apparently came after the T3SS), the blood-clotting cascade, and others, suggested by Behe.

(I was told, by @Dan From Smithville , that this has been refuted...but he provided no reference.)

These are just some obstacles to evolutionary mechanisms. But these evidences support an Intelligence behind them. Antony Flew finally recognized this.

The purposeful nature of these examples, indeed of all systems, imply design.

Many organisms attack humans (and other creatures) and make us sick, even kill us.
Was this part of the original design? No.
Adam’s rebellion created many problems. But when we read Isaiah 11:6-9, esp.vs 9, it tells us that peace “will” exist, according to Jehovah’s purpose. Ephesians 1:10 states God’s will is “to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth, through Christ.”

More evidence will be posted.

My non-scientific observations.
There are four fundamental forces in nature with keep things changing. Maybe some intelligence set this up but there is no evidence of this. You can believe as you wish, Jehova, some other God, Alien scientists doing an experiment. Pick whatever suits your fancy, just don't have any expectation of convincing anyone else of your choice of what to believe.

Evolution = change. There are 18000 or so new species discovered every year. Maybe 2000 or so species go extinct. Life began about 3.5 billion years ago. Billions of mutations creating new species. Some survived many didn't. Homo sapiens was a series of successful mutations. Not because of design but because of accidental mutations allowed humans to survive. Each other species each having gone through billions of mutations like us. Most species didn't survive. Those that did happen to mutate in a why that promoted their survival.

We see the evolutionary successes and think, wow, there must have been some intelligence guiding this to allow our species to survive through all of these billions of years. However we can't even fathom numerically the numbers of mutations which failed to allow a species to survive.

Even our species almost went extinct 3 times in our past.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/close-calls-three-times-when-the-human-race-barely-esc-1730998797

No guarantee Homo Sapien will survive the next thousand or so years. Maybe we will mutate into a new species.

It is hard to fathom how we got here. However ancient tribes created stories of how they can to be with even less information about our past than we have now. How much sense does it make to accept any of these stories as fact?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

....answered...

Sayin' it, ain't showin' it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Billions of mutations creating new species.

You've "observed" this? No, you've been told this.

 

[Nakosis]

You've "observed" this? No, you've been told this.

What have you be told about the creation of the universe?
Why accept a supernatural explanation?

 

[Heyo]

Shhh! Don't tell him. He thinks he is posting evidence. Just smile and nod.

I'm a bit vary. Usually I'm inclined to correct all misinformed and misinforming YEC but Hockeycowboy is a JW and JWs seem to enjoy a protected status here.

 

[Jose Fly]

Thanks for posting that link, it was just abstract. I downloaded the PDF, and am reading it.

Hopefully you'll do better than the material I provided you earlier regarding early 19th century geologists and the flood.

Now, don't present a straw-man. I said micro-evolution occurs, did I not?

So microevolution can generate complexity. That negates most of your arguments in this thread.

Human immune system is not functioning like it was designed.

Again, empty assertion.

So I think I did answer your question.

All you've done is negate your own premise.

 

[Jose Fly]

Sayin' it, ain't showin' it.

Oh for the love of.....

You mean like just saying "it was designed" or "it's not functioning like it was designed"? Sheesh.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

That's it? That's the full extent of your reply?

Yeah, I like to be succinct.

Besides, you kept saying, "same thing."

 

[Subduction Zone]

You did no such thing, wow, sad

Actually he did. I did too.

One of your main problems is that you do not understand the concept of scientific evidence. That makes it very difficult for you to post any.

 

[Jose Fly]

Yeah, I like to be succinct.

Besides, you kept saying, "same thing."

And you did not address those "same things" at all.

And that makes me wonder....what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this thread?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Oh for the love of.....

You mean like just saying "it was designed" or "it's not functioning like it was designed"? Sheesh.

No, it's sort of easy to figure out, but I realize that you're not inclined toward a spiritual / Biblical understanding.... you and I and everyone here will possibly die. That wasn't part of Jehovah's original design, either.

Be that as it may, design is evident everywhere...including in nature, in the Laws that control it, and in the interaction between them.

 

[QuestioningMind]

1) Purposeful interactive systems. Like between flora and fauna (carbon dioxide, and oxygen reciprocation.) Even down to the clownfish / anemone symbiosis. (Evolution explains that developed, how exactly?) It is design.

2) The Cambrian Explosion. Separate creative events. (Where are the obvious precursors? Surely they’re there...right?) The mammalian Explosion, 66 mya, is similar.

3) The sheer diversity of organic body plans. Those living and extinct, it numbers over a billion species! (Darwinian processes have no evident creative power, to explain such scale we observe.... oops, there’s empirical data again!)

4) Irreducibly complex systems. Like the bacterial flagellar motor (which apparently came after the T3SS), the blood-clotting cascade, and others, suggested by Behe.

(I was told, by @Dan From Smithville , that this has been refuted...but he provided no reference.)

These are just some obstacles to evolutionary mechanisms. But these evidences support an Intelligence behind them. Antony Flew finally recognized this.

The purposeful nature of these examples, indeed of all systems, imply design.

Many organisms attack humans (and other creatures) and make us sick, even kill us.
Was this part of the original design? No.
Adam’s rebellion created many problems. But when we read Isaiah 11:6-9, esp.vs 9, it tells us that peace “will” exist, according to Jehovah’s purpose. Ephesians 1:10 states God’s will is “to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth, through Christ.”

More evidence will be posted.

MORE evidence suggests that you've already given SOME evidence... yet thus far nothing you've written is evidence of anything, let alone some sort of intelligent design.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

MORE evidence suggests that you've already given SOME evidence... yet thus far nothing you've written is evidence of anything, let alone some sort of intelligent design.

Then ignore the thread.

Please.

Or post something that refutes it.

I'm tired of reading only contrary opinions.

 

[QuestioningMind]

You did no such thing, wow, sad

Yeah he did, cowboy. He ripped apart each and every argument you made and you had absolutely no viable response to any of it. It IS sad and pathetic that instead of responding, you ran over here to try again and just hope no one noticed. But then, I notice that you do that quite a lot.