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Observations promoting Intelligence behind life & support systems

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Charles Darwin created a theory on biological diversity through Natural Selection, which had nothing to do with races; he didn’t create Social Darwinism.

Natural Selection is only about biology and natural science, not about politics or society or race.

The term “social Darwinism” were used by various people in the late 19th century and early 20th century, and it first appeared in 1877, by Joseph Fisher, however he was talking about the legality of land tenures in Ireland, not as political sociology.

Other people were associated with this term, while Darwin was still alive, but none of them really associated with social/political that we commonly use this term today.

For instance, Herbert Spencer, a biologist, sociologist and philosopher, and Darwin’s contemporary, attempted to link biological theory with that of social change, and it was he, not Darwin, coined the phrase “Survival of the Fittest”. Spencer used this phrase in both biology and sociology, but Spencer wasn’t talking about the strong dominating the weak, or he wasn’t about about building a superior race or about racism.

“Survival of the Fittest” is also often misunderstood when it is used in biological contexts. For instance, fittest doesn’t mean being the “strongest” eliminating or dominating the weakest, that a common misconception. It also isn’t about being the smartest. Anything, organism that can adapt in the environment, and produce offspring and descendants, showed that species have found niche which to survive. To give, you a living and extant example, there are many insects, and among all these insects, are the various species of butterflies. They are still living today, have not gone extinct, and that mean they are the fittest. Does that mean the butterflies are the strongest or the smartest of all insects?

People sometimes misunderstand what the terms or phrases mean.

Just as people often misunderstood Evolution and Darwin’s Natural Selection.

You, BilliardsBall, are deliberately misrepresenting what Darwin say or write with what someone else’s works, and Darwin has never associated Social Darwinism with Natural Selection.

The term we currently used today, is actually link with American historian, Richard Hofstadter in 1944, which he used to talk about Nazi fascism, and Social Darwinism became associated with Nazi trying to promote the Germans as being superior, hence the superior race.

This type of Social Darwinism is what survive today, have nothing to do with Darwin’s Natural Selection.

Social Darwinism is a common tactic used by creationists to falsely blame Darwin and other biologists for the social racism.

Thinking logically isn’t any creationist’s forte or strength, that’s why they continually reused a rehashed propaganda.

Again you accuse me of thinking illogically, without having possession of the facts yourself!

"Darwin was, after all, a man of his time, class and society. True, he was committed to a monogenic, rather than the prevailing polygenic, view of human origins, but he still divided humanity into distinct races according to differences in skin, eye or hair colour. He was also convinced that evolution was progressive, and that the white races—especially the Europeans—were evolutionarily more advanced than the black races, thus establishing race differences and a racial hierarchy. Darwin's views on gender, too, were utterly conventional. He stated that the result of sexual selection is for men to be, “more courageous, pugnacious and energetic than woman [with] a more inventive genius. His brain is absolutely larger [...] the formation of her skull is said to be intermediate between the child and the man” (Darwin 1871). Although female choice explains sexual selection, it is the males who evolve in order to meet the chosen criteria of strength and power; such nineteenth century differentiation between the sexes was crucial in providing an alleged biological basis for the superiority of the male."

Source: Darwin, race and gender
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Again you accuse me of thinking illogically, without having possession of the facts yourself!

"Darwin was, after all, a man of his time, class and society. True, he was committed to a monogenic, rather than the prevailing polygenic, view of human origins, but he still divided humanity into distinct races according to differences in skin, eye or hair colour. He was also convinced that evolution was progressive, and that the white races—especially the Europeans—were evolutionarily more advanced than the black races, thus establishing race differences and a racial hierarchy. Darwin's views on gender, too, were utterly conventional. He stated that the result of sexual selection is for men to be, “more courageous, pugnacious and energetic than woman [with] a more inventive genius. His brain is absolutely larger [...] the formation of her skull is said to be intermediate between the child and the man” (Darwin 1871). Although female choice explains sexual selection, it is the males who evolve in order to meet the chosen criteria of strength and power; such nineteenth century differentiation between the sexes was crucial in providing an alleged biological basis for the superiority of the male."

Source: Darwin, race and gender

This topic is about ID vs Evolution, not sociology, not ethical or legal issues, not about human rights, etc.

And you don’t understand that evolution has nothing to do with men’s or woman’s strengths and weakness, gender inequality or equality, human rights, masters and slavery, human society in general.

All of these are social, ethical, legal and political issues, not related to any ways to Natural Selection.

So I don’t give a bloody damn about the social issues or the politics in Darwin’s days, because it is bloody irrelevant.

Do you bloody understand, BillibardsBall?

Natural Evolution only related to biological changes to the population, due to environmental conditions (eg changes to climates, terrains, if they were living with contacts outside of their region or were they living in isolation, water and food availability, etc), over some period of times (eg times as in numbers of generations than months or years).

Evolution concern with multiple possible and alternative mechanisms, in which population required to adapt and survive and continue to produce descendants better than the ancestors, or don’t adapt and go extinct.

Evolution with passing the traits needed to descendants, via genetics. So it concerns genes, chromosomes and DNA/RNA, etc.

You cannot pass gender or racial equality/inequality or social qualities or dysfunction via genes and DNA.

Beside all this, Evolution isn’t just about humans; it is also about other animals, about plants, bacteria, archaea, etc. What uses animals or trees would have with gender or other social equalities? Does vegetables or fruits consider life as slaves?

All you are doing is trying to change the subjects.

If you want to talk merely about social conditions of humans or the societies concerning Darwin’s time in comparison to the time of the Bible, then create a new thread, BilliardsBall.

Stop wasting my times.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
This topic is about ID vs Evolution, not sociology, not ethical or legal issues, not about human rights, etc.

And you don’t understand that evolution has nothing to do with men’s or woman’s strengths and weakness, gender inequality or equality, human rights, masters and slavery, human society in general.

All of these are social, ethical, legal and political issues, not related to any ways to Natural Selection.

So I don’t give a bloody damn about the social issues or the politics in Darwin’s days, because it is bloody irrelevant.

Do you bloody understand, BillibardsBall?

Natural Evolution only related to biological changes to the population, due to environmental conditions (eg changes to climates, terrains, if they were living with contacts outside of their region or were they living in isolation, water and food availability, etc), over some period of times (eg times as in numbers of generations than months or years).

Evolution concern with multiple possible and alternative mechanisms, in which population required to adapt and survive and continue to produce descendants better than the ancestors, or don’t adapt and go extinct.

Evolution with passing the traits needed to descendants, via genetics. So it concerns genes, chromosomes and DNA/RNA, etc.

You cannot pass gender or racial equality/inequality or social qualities or dysfunction via genes and DNA.

Beside all this, Evolution isn’t just about humans; it is also about other animals, about plants, bacteria, archaea, etc. What uses animals or trees would have with gender or other social equalities? Does vegetables or fruits consider life as slaves?

All you are doing is trying to change the subjects.

If you want to talk merely about social conditions of humans or the societies concerning Darwin’s time in comparison to the time of the Bible, then create a new thread, BilliardsBall.

Stop wasting my times.


Of course he is changing the subject.
For one, no creo we've ever seen knows squat
about science.

They cut n paste from creosites, or make things up.

A few are bright enough to know that they cannot go
head to head on matters of fact, and science.

So, off they go through the treetops, changing
topics as they go from one irrelevant unarguable
thing to another.

I think they have a deep visceral dread of actually
getting cornered and having to duke it out, fact
v fact; for lo, their "faith" is at stake, and, they
will do anything to avoid putting it at risk.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Intelligent Design is creationism, not science.

Intelligent Design has never been falsifiable, never been scientifically tested, and never been peer reviewed. It isn’t falsifiable hypothesis and it isn’t scientific theory.

People who advocated for ID, are doing nothing more than promoting it as science, but to date, it is nothing more than another pseudoscience creationism, masquerading as science.

The propaganda being used involved putting legal, social and political pressures to have kids in schools being taught ID as science, when it really should be taught in theology or Sunday schools. Propaganda is the main tool that the Discovery Institute have been used since it’s foundation by a couple of former journalists and politicians.

There's really only 2 words that needs to be said about ID. And those 2 words are "cdesign proponentsists"

If whoever is reading this doesn't know what those 2 words are about, I suggest you google them.

It will inform you on just how dishonest the ID movement is and how it's in fact demonstrably and literally just creationism disguised in a lab coat.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
This topic is about ID vs Evolution, not sociology, not ethical or legal issues, not about human rights, etc.

And you don’t understand that evolution has nothing to do with men’s or woman’s strengths and weakness, gender inequality or equality, human rights, masters and slavery, human society in general.

All of these are social, ethical, legal and political issues, not related to any ways to Natural Selection.

So I don’t give a bloody damn about the social issues or the politics in Darwin’s days, because it is bloody irrelevant.

Do you bloody understand, BillibardsBall?

Natural Evolution only related to biological changes to the population, due to environmental conditions (eg changes to climates, terrains, if they were living with contacts outside of their region or were they living in isolation, water and food availability, etc), over some period of times (eg times as in numbers of generations than months or years).

Evolution concern with multiple possible and alternative mechanisms, in which population required to adapt and survive and continue to produce descendants better than the ancestors, or don’t adapt and go extinct.

Evolution with passing the traits needed to descendants, via genetics. So it concerns genes, chromosomes and DNA/RNA, etc.

You cannot pass gender or racial equality/inequality or social qualities or dysfunction via genes and DNA.

Beside all this, Evolution isn’t just about humans; it is also about other animals, about plants, bacteria, archaea, etc. What uses animals or trees would have with gender or other social equalities? Does vegetables or fruits consider life as slaves?

All you are doing is trying to change the subjects.

If you want to talk merely about social conditions of humans or the societies concerning Darwin’s time in comparison to the time of the Bible, then create a new thread, BilliardsBall.

Stop wasting my times.

I'm sorry I changed the subject to demonstrate what an awful person Darwin was. Thank you.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I'm sorry I changed the subject to demonstrate what an awful person Darwin was. Thank you.

Boy, you are shameless. You are obviously using some creationist webpages, which are often filled with propaganda and deceptions.

Plus, I have yet to see you quote directly from Darwin’s works, which explicitly stated he supported white supremacy or gender inequality.

But again, I would ask that you start a new thread if you want to talk about Darwin’s personality or his supposed misdeeds.
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
Boy, you are shameless. You are obviously using some creationist webpages, which are often filled with propaganda and deceptions.

But again, I would ask that you start a new thread if you want to talk about Darwin’s personality or his supposed misdeeds.

If I believed in Satan, I'd probably figure his creos
all work for him.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I understand, I have back problems.

The last part of my OP briefly touched on that. Our bodies rejuvenate and heal up to a point, but as we age, that ability becomes less effective. Scientists have no explanation, as to why the process breaks down.

The Bible does, though.
(Why did those people who existed long ago, according to the Bible, live for centuries? Because they were only a few generations removed from Adam & Eve. Their genetic makeup was closer to A & E’s perfection. As people were born and more generations removed, lifespans declined.)
And what evidence do we have that people have ever lived for centuries?
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Now, don't present a straw-man. I said micro-evolution occurs, did I not?
You should want speciation to occur, and plenty of it. Otherwise, your ark story sinks.
Human immune system is not functioning like it was designed. (At one time, I was immune to poison ivy, sumac , etc. Not anymore.)
How do you know how it was designed?

And it seems like you do not understand how the immune system works - for your do not responds, 'allergically', to something you become allergic to. You must first be exposed and go through an immune response.

Of course, if it was designed, and now no longer works the way it was designed to, sounds like a crappy design.

adjustments of science and the issue of creationism/JW
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
You did no such thing, wow, sad
But you just paraphrase and plagiarize creationist claims. You never actually discuss anything, you operate on the notion that anything a creationist says is true, or so it seems.

How do YOU know that what your sources claim IS true?

I think that is a major issue among anti-evolution types. You all just seem content to dismiss science, and when asked why, you hide behind some cut and pastes. And when the cut and pastes are debunked, you paste some new ones, or like here, just start a new thread with the same debunked pastes.

At some point, you cannot keep hiding like this.Especially if you want to be taken seriously.
 
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tas8831

Well-Known Member

gnostic

The Lost One
Some 230 posts later, and I still don’t see any “observations” or evidence that intelligence exist before or during first life, @Hockeycowboy.

You have brought up Behe and Irreducible Complexity @ OP, but he has never presented any evidence.

Where are the evidence?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Behe writes long and tedious books claiming to present "evidence."

But, he never has any. Any question that he can make needlessly fuzzy complex, and is not 100% standard science becomes his "proof" of magic.
Not to mention that he admitted under oath that he had to redefine what "scientific theory" means in order to be able to call Intelligent Design a "scientific theory" AND that according to that altered definition... Astrology (you know - horoscopes) also qualifies as science.

:)
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Not to mention that he admitted under oath that he had to redefine what "scientific theory" means in order to be able to call Intelligent Design a "scientific theory" AND that according to that altered definition... Astrology (you know - horoscopes) also qualifies as science.

:)
And he also said that it was not his job to provide evidence to support his claims, it was up to others to show him wrong.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
No, it's sort of easy to figure out, but I realize that you're not inclined toward a spiritual / Biblical understanding.... you and I and everyone here will possibly die. That wasn't part of Jehovah's original design, either.

Looks like His toy just blew on His face. Which can happen if you never did anything of the sort. Rookie :)

Be that as it may, design is evident everywhere...including in nature, in the Laws that control it, and in the interaction between them.

Yes, like nipples on men. Or silenced tails genes on humans. If it is design, I would not call it ID. SD maybe?

Ciao

- viole
 
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tas8831

Well-Known Member
That because despite being a qualified biochemist and professor, he was never a researcher.
No, he IS a researcher - just not when it comes to his ID/creationist "science." He certainly provides evidence for his non-creationist/ID work...
 
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