Oh... my... God!

[kiwimac]

Yes, and THEY are the ones who define who is misguided.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Source: Wikipedia

Neither Wahhābīya nor Salafiyyah require Female circumcision, this is an Africa cultural practice not a tenet of Islam. Those who performed this practice should be charged with Assault with a waepon, sexual assault, imprisoned and then deported.

kiwimac

And for god's sake, if they do such a thing in America, make them register as the sex offenders that they are.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

This is truely sad.

no one has the right to do that.

 

[Laila]

Really nasty cultural practice! I'm glad that some of the posters on this thread have not associated it with a religious practice; I'm sure any sane wahabbi follower would not condone this as 'holy'.

 

[ch'ang]

Dude, perhaps you need a refresher in sex ed. Cutting off the clitoris is not the same as cutting off the foreskin. It's more like cutting off the head of the penis.

Not true at all in fact they are quite similar

A. The foreskin houses 50-80% of the nerve endings in the penis the clitoris has a similar amount
B. Cutting the foreskin/clitoris off still allows the victim to participate in sex but there is a noticeable difference in the amount of pleasure obtained

I could go on but I would much rather be lazy and direct you here http://www.norm-uk.org/

P.S. There is a reason its called female circumcision

 

[TashaN]

Actually, I lived a big part of my life in Saudi Arabia, and I know they are Wahabbies..
They dont call themselvs that way...

They are kind of Salafies any way, and named after a man lived in the 18'th century..

It's not an official sect, or group, just their method of understanding Islamic shariea is kind of being extremist...

You better read this link brother, especially post # 4. You will find information about the so called Wahhbism thing.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9705

 

[lilithu]

Not true at all in fact they are quite similar

A. The foreskin houses 50-80% of the nerve endings in the penis the clitoris has a similar amount
B. Cutting the foreskin/clitoris off still allows the victim to participate in sex but there is a noticeable difference in the amount of pleasure obtained

P.S. There is a reason its called female circumcision

The penis has a foreskin and a glans. The clitoris has a foreskin and a glans. Unless "female circumcision" only entails removal of the foreskin and not the glans, it is not the same thing regardless of what it's called.

As for point B., that's just insulting.

 

[TashaN]

So it's written in the Qur'an and/or the Sunnah that women can't drive cars??

Not at all, women in the time of prophet Mohammed were riding camels and horses whether to travel or even to fight sometimes as the famous Muslim female warior at that time. They made it so clear in Saudi Arabia, the driving cars issue have nothing to do with Islam's law but with cultural complications.

the form of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia and surrounding regions tends to be more literalist, more strict, more exclusionist (and more sexist) than the form of Islam practiced in other parts of the world, like for example Bosnia or Malaysia.

I agree with you, but they are changing all of that now.

Whether or not the practitioners actually refer to themselves as Wahhabis is beside the point. I know that other Muslims are calling them Wahhabis. It's not just a Western invention.

It was a western invention in the first place to accuse the Sunnah of being extereme and to make a gap between the Muslims in Saudi Arabia for instance and the other Muslims around the world.

From what I understand it varies from region to region how strictly these dress codes are enforced. (Did you notice that my link was to a pro-Muslim site? pro-moderate Muslim.)

Never saw these sites before and there is many misleading information in many parts in these sites.

So please don't just respond by denying it or getting mad at me. I would like there to be a real dialogue.

I'm not denying things just for the sake of denying or plain blind defending. I'm fully aware that in Saudi Arabia they are strict a little bit about how they implement and interpret Islam but they are trying to fix that nowadays. Also, in the past, there was those men who tried to make the West looks so bad and they were encouraging the youth to hate them, but the famous scholars in charge tried their best to clean the society from those men who have hatred toward the West for no reason. There was a real problem in the past but it's so clear now to everyone and they are trying their best to fight it, the government with the respected famous scholars in charge.

 

[TashaN]

Source: Wikipedia

Neither Wahhābīya nor Salafiyyah require Female circumcision, this is an Africa cultural practice not a tenet of Islam. Those who performed this practice should be charged with Assault with a waepon, sexual assault, imprisoned and then deported.

kiwimac

Thank you.

 

[Withdrawnmist]

What is the premise behind this severe sick and twisted violation anyway !!

it's disgusting !!..I'm not religious but did not God put the clitoris there for a reason ?...surely not for some sicko twisted idiot to cut off !!

 

[kiwimac]

What is the premise behind this severe sick and twisted violation anyway !!

it's disgusting !!..I'm not religious but did not God put the clitoris there for a reason ?...surely not for some sicko twisted idiot to cut off !!

Here is a good place to begin with understand how and why, there are several forms of FGC, some are exactly analagous to male circumcision, most are not.

Note also the following from religioustolerance.org

Debate Among Muslims:

As noted above, FGM is a social custom, not a religious practice. However, in those Muslim countries where it is practice, FGM is often justified by a controversial saying attributed to the Prophet Mohammed that seem to favor sunna circumcision. The authenticity of these sayings are unconfirmed, and some scholars have refuted them.

Even if true, they only permit the practice; they do not mandate it.
FGM has probably been performed for at least 1,400 years (some references estimate 2,000 years), and started during what Muslims call "al-gahiliyyah" (the era of ignorance). The Qu'r'an, Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and Christian Scriptures (New Testament) is silent on the subject. The Sunnah (the words and actions of the Prophet Mohammed) contains a reference to female circumcision.

According to the Muslim Women's League:

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"Those who advocate for FGM from an Islamic perspective commonly quote the following hadith to argue that it is required as part of the Sunnah or Tradition of the Prophet:

'Um Atiyyat al-Ansariyyah said: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (pbuh) said to her: Do not cut too severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband'." 1,8

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One interpretation of this passage is that the woman was going to proceed with the circumcision anyway; Muhammad suggested that she remove a smaller amount of her genitalia than she had perhaps intended to.

This passage is regarded by many Muslims as having little credibility or authenticity. The Muslim Women's League comments: "According to Sayyid Sabiq, renowned scholar and author of Fiqh-us-Sunnah, all hadiths concerning female circumcision are non-authentic." [1] An extensive analysis of classical Muslim authors is available online. [2]

Many Muslims see passages in the Qur'an which, by implication, oppose FGM. they reason:
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[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]* God apparently created the clitoris for the sole purpose of generating pleasure. It has no other purpose. There is no instruction in the Qur'an or in the writings of the Prophet Mohammed which require that the clitoris be surgically modified. Thus God must approve of its presence. And so, it should not be removed or reduced in size or function.[/FONT]
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[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]* The Qur'an promotes the concept of a husband and wife giving each other pleasure during sexual intercourse. For example: [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"It is lawful for you to go in unto your wives during the night preceding the (day's) fast: they are as a garment for you and you are as a garment for them." (2:187)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"...and He has put love and mercy between you." (30:21)[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]

Mutilated genitalia reduce or eliminate a woman's pleasure during the act.

​

[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]* The Qur'an (An-Nisa': 119) states that Satan will try to trick humans into body modification: "And I will surely lead them astray, and arouse desires in them, and command them and they will cut the cattle's ears, and I will surely command them and they will change Allah's creation." This might be interpreted as forbidding FGM as well as tattoos, piercing and any other modification that alters the design of the human body as Allah created it.[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]


Nawal El-Saadawi, a Muslim victim of infibulation, stated:

"The importance given to virginity and an intact hymen in these societies is the reason why female circumcision still remains a very widespread practice despite a growing tendency, especially in urban Egypt, to do away with it as something outdated and harmful. Behind circumcision lies the belief that, by removing parts of girls' external genitals organs, sexual desire is minimized. This permits a female who has reached the dangerous age of puberty and adolescence to protect her virginity, and therefore her honor, with greater ease. Chastity was imposed on male attendants in the female harem by castration which turned them into inoffensive eunuchs. Similarly female circumcision is meant to preserve the chastity of young girls by reducing their desire for sexual intercourse."​

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I recommend reading the rest of the article at religioustolerance.org which can be found here


kiwimac

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[Withdrawnmist]

I just want to thank Kiwimac (above ) for the kind reply and information. I will read it and click through to the link also.

Best Wishes


Neil