Ohio anti-abortion bill

[oldbadger]

"Ohio Republicans are pushing an anti-abortion bill sponsored by Republican John Becker that would not only prohibit PRIVATE insurance companies from covering abortion, but would also outlaw most common forms of female birth control.

If only these people would campaign for 'Free whole-life medicare, education and benefits' for all folks born with disabilities, and 'Free medicare and education' for all minors then at least they would not look like a bunch of hypocrites.

They don't give a hoot for life once out of the womb, it seems.

Ohio just needs to decide who it wants to rule it. Ohio's leaders are the personification of the majority of voters in Ohio. I guess that the people of Ohio need to wake up.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Off the wall thought.

Those who have been aborted are the lucky ones.
They go straight to heaven without being subjected to the miseries of life on earth.

You've stumbled onto a particularly awkward philosophical argument that, if orthodox Christian beliefs are true, is unassailable, but Christians everywhere (myself included) have tacitly agreed to deal with by saying.... "yeah... um, we don't think about that".

 

[oldbadger]

There's one state to my knowledge where a woman can decide she wants to abort after her baby has been delivered.
That is actually infanticide.

Can we have a link to that info please? An honest link would be nice.

But the Thread is about Ohio banning a lot of medical contraception and most abortions, and the thing that shows me how little such leaders really care is that there is No provision for free whole life medicare and financial support for all persons born with disabilities, and No free medicare, benefit assistance and education for all minors.

Would you support the full provision of the above for all children and whole-life provision for any persons born disabled? ............. funded from your tax-dollars?

Yes...... or No?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Can we have a link to that info please? An honest link would be nice.

... oh wait, were you serious?

 

[oldbadger]

View attachment 28903

... oh wait, were you serious?

This is a Thursday, my 'try and be as polite as possible' day.

 

[oldbadger]

View attachment 28903

... oh wait, were you serious?

Some Thursday just go down wind for politeness, I'm afraid.

These nutters who demand extreme and total prolife never ever agree to pay up for whole life medicare and sustenance for folks born disabled. And they never support Medicare and allowances for all children to adulthood.

Prolife?

It's hypocrisy.

Oops.... It's Thursday!
Some Thursdays I just forget

 

[Revoltingest]

Ohio just needs to decide who it wants to rule it. Ohio's leaders are the personification of the majority of voters in Ohio. I guess that the people of Ohio need to wake up.

Note that only 1/5 of Ohio legislators (Republicans all) signed on for this.
Don't be talk'n "majority".

 

[Kenny]

Cool story bro. Now try actually writing something relevant to the OP.

I think it is very relevant. I agree with your opening but realized it was short sighted and therefore I rounded it up with the other side of the spectrum. The radicals that uses birth control measures that remind me of the Holocaust to babies that can be birthed alive..

 

[Kenny]

Thank you for a thoughtful and a love-filled response to the very complex and emotional issue.

Ken, I'm one of those who thinks that using over-the-top examples to win debates on matters of general principles is not very productive. And let me point out, you state you want to stop electing officials "that enact these laws," when in fact what you've shown are examples of people acting in the absence of any laws. Read what you said about New Mexico; "because there are essentially no laws restricting the practice or regulating it (abortion)"

I think the OP was over-the-top that painted religious people into a box. I tend to do the same to accentuate the ridiculousness of that type of OP.

But I think it unfair to just select New Mexico when the issue is that there are laws that are extreme in other states where 9 months abortions are permitted by law.

Writing laws that deal with very difficult, very emotional, very complex situations can be excessively difficult. How do law makers include considerations like: rape by a family member (esp. a father); severe genetic deformity (and at what stage in the pregnancy that is discovered); possible danger to the mother's life (for lots of reasons).

That certainly is a difficult position. I don't think anybody has a problem of saving the life of the mother. Does that mean that you must extinguish the life of the child? Sometimes yes and sometimes no.

Yes, it is a very emotional subject and one would obviously have different viewpoints. We have a saying, however, when emotions run high, intelligence runs low.

So let's take rape... found this-- I'm sure it is not complete:

The following small list of people were conceived by force in rape. Eartha Kitt (singer). Rev. Jesse Jackson (political activist). Layne Beachley (7-time World Surfing Champion). Kelly Wright (FOX news reporter). Faith Daniels (former NBC reporter). Nell Carter (singer/actress). Janet Sheen (actress/producer & mother of Charlie Sheen & Emilio Estevez). Ethel Waters (singer/actress). Valerie Gatto (Mrs. Pennsylvania). Frederick Douglass (orator/statesman). James Robison (televangelist). Ryan Bomberger (educator).

So, is a baby birthed through rape any less of a person? I wonder if they (those who were birthed) would agree that they should have been aborted. I don't think so. Was the mothers any less able to live because they had a baby that was through a rape? Probably not. The scars are there whether they have a baby or not.

Then, we have those babies who are birthed under normal circumstance and still go through a terrible life. My wife, for an example. Yet she is now a life-impacting woman.

And I'd like you to think about whether all unwanted children get adopted and have chances for good lives...the truth is, they don't. I wasn't, though I longed to be.

Yes... that is always a need. Life can be tough. Let me ask you a question... would you have preferred not being birthed?

Absolute rules are easy to articulate, but extremely dodgy in a world that refuses to be absolutely uniform.

True... true. I'm sure you would agree that regardless of a world that refuses uniformity should be translated into a no-rules world.

Your religious beliefs, your intelligence and your own humanity should all be part of who you are and what you wish for. Try to bring them all together at once. And when you do, then try to imagine scenarios of every kind, as I do, and while you are doing that, try to include in your thinking what's going on in the mind of the woman considering abortion. What does she feel, or fear?

And when you've done all that, tell us what law you would pass that would cover all situations.

Having sisters that have gone through abortions and listening to them, I think I have a certain grasp of the process. Along with a suicide because of abuse of one of their children.

I do hope I am not coming across as combative in any form.

 

[SkepticThinker]

"Ohio Republicans are pushing an anti-abortion bill sponsored by Republican John Becker that would not only prohibit PRIVATE insurance companies from covering abortion, but would also outlaw most common forms of female birth control.

The bill would ban "nontherapeutic abortions" -- which it defines as "drugs or devices used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum.”

That's The Pill and IUDs and any similar birth control method.

But wait, there's more.

The bill also de facto outlaws ectopic or tubal pregnancies. That's right. Requiring instead that in such pregnancies where the fertilized egg attaches outside of the womb,

“part of that treatment would be removing that embryo from the Fallopian tube and reinserting it in the uterus so that is defined as not an abortion under this bill."

Least you think I'm engaged in hyperbole or hysteria, that quote is taken DIRECTLY from the bill's sponsor, Representative John Becker. The bill would require that doctors remove the "embryo," i.e. the fertilized egg, from the Fallopian tube and somehow attach it in the uterus. This is a medical procedure that DOES NOT EXIST and is in fact not even something that exists experimentally in human medical treatment.

Becker, when pressed regarding the outlawing of birth control, said, “When you get into the contraception and abortifacients, that’s clearly not my area of expertise, but I suppose, if it were true that what we typically known as the pill would be classified as an abortifacient, then I would imagine the drug manufacturers would reformulate it so it’s no longer an abortifacient and is strictly a contraceptive."

If you can't see what's wrong with that statement, then you are in the wrong place.

We have to stop electing stupid people and religious fanatics to run this country."

- Jim Wright

New Ohio Bill Would Ban Most Private Insurance Coverage Of Abortion

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

 

[SkepticThinker]

There's one state to my knowledge where a woman can decide she wants to abort after her baby has been delivered.
That is actually infanticide. Moloch worshipers on the NY Legislature cheered and celebrated on the floor when the bill passed and as promised the NY Gov. signed it into law.
I wonder when there will be news that some female who decided she'd had enough of being a parent kills her child and then cites that abortion law as what makes prosecution impossible. After all, legalizing infanticide in a delivery room makes infanticide itself legal everywhere in New York.

Sounds like nonsense to me.
Abortion critics wrong on effect of NY law

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Y'know, that bit about the cupcakes is bogus and lousy logic.
In order for those bits of batter to BECOME cupcakes, the cook has to heat up the oven and put them in, bake them for the required time, take them out, cool them and, perhaps, decorate them. In other words, in order for that batter to become cupcakes, the cook has to actively do something to see to it that they ARE cupcakes. If s/he just leaves them on the counter, they never will. At every point in the process, the cook has to do something to see to it that cupcakes result..

BRILLIANT POINT! YOU MAKE MY CASE FOR ME!

But...

Babies, once conceived, do not require the active, intellectual cooperation of the mother or father. If they do nothing...a baby is born. .

ABSOLUTELY FALSE. If they do nothing? The mother dies-- so does the baby...

 

[oldbadger]

Note that only 1/5 of Ohio legislators (Republicans all) signed on for this.
Don't be talk'n "majority".

So it will not happen?

 

[Revoltingest]

So it will not happen?

We'll see.
But 1/5 of a legislature is far short of a majority.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"Ohio Republicans are pushing an anti-abortion bill sponsored by Republican John Becker that would not only prohibit PRIVATE insurance companies from covering abortion, but would also outlaw most common forms of female birth control.

The bill would ban "nontherapeutic abortions" -- which it defines as "drugs or devices used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum.”

That's The Pill and IUDs and any similar birth control method.

But wait, there's more.

The bill also de facto outlaws ectopic or tubal pregnancies. That's right. Requiring instead that in such pregnancies where the fertilized egg attaches outside of the womb,

“part of that treatment would be removing that embryo from the Fallopian tube and reinserting it in the uterus so that is defined as not an abortion under this bill."

Least you think I'm engaged in hyperbole or hysteria, that quote is taken DIRECTLY from the bill's sponsor, Representative John Becker. The bill would require that doctors remove the "embryo," i.e. the fertilized egg, from the Fallopian tube and somehow attach it in the uterus. This is a medical procedure that DOES NOT EXIST and is in fact not even something that exists experimentally in human medical treatment.

Becker, when pressed regarding the outlawing of birth control, said, “When you get into the contraception and abortifacients, that’s clearly not my area of expertise, but I suppose, if it were true that what we typically known as the pill would be classified as an abortifacient, then I would imagine the drug manufacturers would reformulate it so it’s no longer an abortifacient and is strictly a contraceptive."

If you can't see what's wrong with that statement, then you are in the wrong place.

We have to stop electing stupid people and religious fanatics to run this country."

- Jim Wright

New Ohio Bill Would Ban Most Private Insurance Coverage Of Abortion

What a lunatic. I'm deeply ashamed of this backwards state for electing such morons. So much for Republicans believing in small government and individual liberty.

 

[columbus]

So it will not happen?

Without caring enough to investigate,
this looks like a bunch of politicians grandstanding.
They can fire up their base, reap the wealth and power, without having to deal with the ugly reality of what they're proposing. Because it won't get passed into law.

It's a traditional way of doing politics around here.
Tom

 

[oldbadger]

Without caring enough to investigate,
this looks like a bunch of politicians grandstanding.
They can fire up their base, reap the wealth and power, without having to deal with the ugly reality of what they're proposing. Because it won't get passed into law.

It's a traditional way of doing politics around here.
Tom

Ah...... Political bull-dust for attention, kind of thing?

But surely somebody could ask them if they would support pro-life by extending medicare and benefits for all children and whole-life for persons born disabled? All from their tax-dollars? Then the State will see just how much they really do believe in pro-life.

 

[columbus]

But surely somebody could ask them if they would support pro-life by extending medicare and benefits for all children and whole-life for persons born disabled?

Yes ,you're right.
And they'll probably say Yes to that too( if politically expedient), but it won't happen either.
Tom

 

[dianaiad]

BRILLIANT POINT! YOU MAKE MY CASE FOR ME!



ABSOLUTELY FALSE. If they do nothing? The mother dies-- so does the baby...

Don't go to medical school.

Or better...DO go to medical school. You seem to be saying that the progress of the pregnancy depends upon the mother and/or father actively DO something to keep that pregnancy going, and that if they do not do those things, the pregnancy would fail.

Perhaps you should watch a couple of episodes of 'I didn't know I was pregnant!" It is quite possible for a woman to be pregnant, and the first thing she knows about it is the birth.

The favorite thing is the 'baby dropped into the toilet because....'

Once someone has sex, and a pregnancy results, the mother doesn't have to do anything actively to
KEEP it going. Anything that happens after that is pretty much out of her control, unless she actively seeks to end it. All she can do is harm it.

So I don't get how you figure I have proven your point. Quite the opposite.

In order for that batter to become cupcakes, the cook has to do certain things, in a certain manner, to see to it that they do. A pregnant woman does not. All she can do is seek to end it.

Perhaps you need to rethink your position.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Don't go to medical school..

Biology major in College-- a subject (biology) you have repeatedly demonstrated you have no clue about. Oh well.

Or better...DO go to medical school. You seem to be saying that the progress of the pregnancy depends upon the mother and/or father actively DO something to keep that pregnancy going, and that if they do not do those things, the pregnancy would fail..

Like.... say... eating. Or breathing... or sleeping? Those sort of things?

Because those are activities-- even though you 100% ignore that, which I pointed out eariler...

Which 100% ruins your complaint that uncooked batter == cupcakes to a pro-birther.

And that is what you are: Pro Birth.

You are not pro life. I've seen how your group operates, and it's one of the main lobbies to get rid of any and all welfare/help services.

Anti-planned parenthood too-- IRONIC.

Planned Parenthood-- with it's myriad of counseling and contraceptive services?

PLANNED PARENTHOOD DOES MORE TO ELIMINATE ABORTIONS THAN THE ENTIRE SUM OF ALL THE ANTI-ABORTION CROWD, ANYWHERE. BY GIVING WOMEN OPTIONS, AND KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO NOT GET PREGNANT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Yet.... anti-abortionists are AGAINST them!

BOTTOM LINE: YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT PREVENTING ABORTIONS BY PROVIDING BETTER OPTIONS.

YOU JUST WANT TO FORCE WOMEN TO GIVE BIRTH-- NO MATTER WHAT.