Old gods, new world.

[Gentoo]

I've known a few as well and to some extent I understand their point of view. For an ethnic Hellene who is making a sincere attempt to adopt/adapt the ways of their own ancestors, it must be irksome to see some, say, Irish girl claiming to worship the gods of ancient Greece while lacking more than the most cursory knowledge of the associated myths and practices. Especially if she is doing so while demonstrating no meaningful desire to really try to understand any of it in context.

Fluffbunnies DO exist and some frustration with them is justified.

On the other hand, I'm not personally of the opinion that "proper" recons should be taking it upon the themselves to be the Pagan Police, admonishing everyone that isn't "doing it right". To me, that smacks a bit too much of certain schools of certain monotheist religions that shall go unnamed.

But now I'm going off-topic in my own thread.

I've had "Cultural Rape" called on me, and I agree with what you say in this post.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I think that humans throughout time share some of the same basic experiences like love, sadness, death, hunger, boredom. Our myths--and thus the gods--reflect this shared human experience.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I've had "Cultural Rape" called on me, and I agree with what you say in this post.

"Cultural Rape" is an odd term, especially since everyone considers their way to be the right way (thus essential to existence), yet exclusive to a select group of humans. It seems that humans ought to be able to borrow from many sources, especially in this kaleidoscopic postmodern world.

 

[Gentoo]

"Cultural Rape" is an odd term, especially since everyone considers their way to be the right way (thus essential to existence), yet exclusive to a select group of humans. It seems that humans ought to be able to borrow from many sources, especially in this kaleidoscopic postmodern world.

Don't tell that to "them" :cover:

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Don't tell that to "them" :cover:

I know.

But, as you know, I do anyway.

 

[Azakel]

kaleidoscopic postmodern world.

Got me to think of this song:
[youtube]r5zu5buTeM4[/youtube]
YouTube - Scar Symmetry - The Kaleidoscopic God

 

[Antibush5]

Well the fertility gods could now be patrons of porn stars.
I know that Dionysus would grin at the thought.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Well the fertility gods could now be patrons of porn stars.
I know that Dionysus would grin at the thought.

I don't see the Gods and Goddesses of fertility as smiling upon porn in any way. Fertility is not the sex itself, but the miracle of creating a new life. That is not the point of porn.

 

[Erebus]

I don't see the Gods and Goddesses of fertility as smiling upon porn in any way. Fertility is not the sex itself, but the miracle of creating a new life. That is not the point of porn.

True, but I still imagine Dionysus would be a porn fan

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Old gods, new world? I say maybe same gods, same world, different people. The more I study history, the human experience hasn't changed very much. We might have technology now, but we still have all the problems and emotional issues of our ancestors.

 

[Storm]

*bites tongue*

Is my not-quite-neopagan-anymore perspective welcome?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Storm in my book your comments are always welcome

 

[Erebus]

*bites tongue*

Is my not-quite-neopagan-anymore perspective welcome?

NO! GO AWAY!



just kidding

 

[Storm]

Cool. It's nice to be an "honorary pagan," as eo puts it. :group:

Anyway, one of the reasons I don't consider myself pagan anymore is that I no longer consider the Gods to be, well... Gods. I (rather confusingly, sorry) call them deities, but they're not God. I believe they're powerful sidhe who made pacts with certain human tribes. (That, or flawed attempts to understand the true God, but that's not my focus here.)

Anyway, worship is powerful magic. It channels tremendous energy into its target, and lends the beneficiary great power. Some Gods were even born of their own worship (a la Gaiman's Sandman mythos). Others evolved independently and, as I touched on, made pacts with human communities: magic for worship. As their devotees dwindle, so do they.

Then there's the matter of our collective belief in general. As we advance scientifically, many of us our losing our sense of wonder and infinite possibility. Belief shapes reality. We're less accepting of magic than we used to be, and many of us subconsciously work against it, utilizing our natural gifts to deny their own existence.

So, where does that leave the Gods in the "new world?" Vastly weakened. They're just not as popular as they used to be, and the energies that feed them have dropped off sharply. Some may even die, especially those who began as thoughtforms.

Those who never made worship pacts fare better.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Storm that's an interesting thought, but I'm sure you won't be offended if I disagree with you.

 

[Storm]

Storm that's an interesting thought, but I'm sure you won't be offended if I disagree with you.

Not at all!

For one thing, I know I'm weird.

For another, allow me to point out that while I have great fun speculating on which Gods are sidhe-deities and which are flawed understandings of God (as all understandings are flawed, my own most definitely included!), there's no sure test.

What that means is that I don't know which Gods are in which position, and I don't pretend to.

And last but not least, a respectful DUH! You're a pagan, and I'm not. I'm cool with that, lol.

 

[Erebus]

Cool. It's nice to be an "honorary pagan," as eo puts it. :group:

Anyway, one of the reasons I don't consider myself pagan anymore is that I no longer consider the Gods to be, well... Gods. I (rather confusingly, sorry) call them deities, but they're not God. I believe they're powerful sidhe who made pacts with certain human tribes. (That, or flawed attempts to understand the true God, but that's not my focus here.)

Anyway, worship is powerful magic. It channels tremendous energy into its target, and lends the beneficiary great power. Some Gods were even born of their own worship (a la Gaiman's Sandman mythos). Others evolved independently and, as I touched on, made pacts with human communities: magic for worship. As their devotees dwindle, so do they.

Then there's the matter of our collective belief in general. As we advance scientifically, many of us our losing our sense of wonder and infinite possibility. Belief shapes reality. We're less accepting of magic than we used to be, and many of us subconsciously work against it, utilizing our natural gifts to deny their own existence.

So, where does that leave the Gods in the "new world?" Vastly weakened. They're just not as popular as they used to be, and the energies that feed them have dropped off sharply. Some may even die, especially those who began as thoughtforms.

Those who never made worship pacts fare better.

The basic principle of this I agree with. The true "God" is ultimately reality itself (IMO) and all deities are manifestations of it. I also believe that deities can "feed" off worship and emotion, though I don't believe it's essential to them, it's more like a drug or a delicacy.

 

[Storm]

The basic principle of this I agree with. The true "God" is ultimately reality itself (IMO) and all deities are manifestations of it.

Henotheism? That was a significant phase in my rather colorful journey.

The thing is, I no longer think the deities are really "above" us. They're just another life form. They can do things we can't, sure. So can bats.

I also believe that deities can "feed" off worship and emotion, though I don't believe it's essential to them, it's more like a drug or a delicacy.

Yes, precisely. At least for the independently evolved. That said "withdrawal" may be deadly.

The only ones for whom it's vitally essential are those who were born as thoughtforms (which I'm inclined to think is more rare), and even they might be able to survive the loss.

Also and again, speculation is fun, but there's no way of knowing which is which.

 

[Erebus]

Henotheism? That was a significant phase in my rather colorful journey.

The thing is, I no longer think the deities are really "above" us. They're just another life form. They can do things we can't, sure. So can bats.


Yes, precisely. At least for the independently evolved. That said "withdrawal" may be deadly.

The only ones for whom it's vitally essential are those who were born as thoughtforms (which I'm inclined to think is more rare), and even they might be able to survive the loss.

Also and again, speculation is fun, but there's no way of knowing which is which.

hmm, I consider myself more of a polytheist rather than a henotheist (I worship more than one deity) but my view of God is pantheistic, so I don't know what that makes me. I also agree with your idea that deities aren't so much superior as they are different. I think we can learn a great deal from them and vice versa.

Obviously nobody can ever be 100% certain of these things, but it is fun trying to figure it out
Out of interest, have you ever practiced magic? Your ideas on the nature of deities seems quite compatible with certain branches of magical thought.

 

[Storm]

hmm, I consider myself more of a polytheist rather than a henotheist (I worship more than one deity) but my view of God is pantheistic, so I don't know what that makes me. I also agree with your idea that deities aren't so much superior as they are different. I think we can learn a great deal from them and vice versa.

It makes you weird. Arrogant as it may be to say it myself, you're in good company.

Obviously nobody can ever be 100% certain of these things, but it is fun trying to figure it out

:yes:

Out of interest, have you ever practiced magic? Your ideas on the nature of deities seems quite compatible with certain branches of magical thought.

Oh, yes. Not anymore, though I still believe.