Omnipresence

[The Sum of Awe]

If God is omnipresent according to the Bible, isn't Yahweh basically a pantheistic God?

 

[Skwim]

A pantheistic god is one that is not only everywhere (omnipresent) but is everything.

 

[Madhuri]

A pantheistic god is one that is not only everywhere (omnipresent) but is everything.

But how can you be everywhere and not be everything?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

A pantheistic god is one that is not only everywhere (omnipresent) but is everything.

So I don't understand, how is God everywhere without being everything?

 

[freethinker44]

The omnipresent god is absurd to me.

For one, it makes the already ridiculous idea of an afterlife, especially one with eternal punishment, even more ridiculous. Omnipresent would mean that we are part of god. Like appendages or maybe to god like what cells are to us. So a punishment or reward after death is like punishing your fingernail clippings for being bothersome, or rewarding them for something equally stupid.

I said "for one" like I had something else to add afterwards, but I don't, so.....

 

[Acim]

If God is omnipresent according to the Bible, isn't Yahweh basically a pantheistic God?

Yes. But only basically.

 

[Skwim]

But how can you be everywhere and not be everything?

If one defines omnipresent as being "in every location not identical with any other thing."

 

[Ninez]

"Do look down from your holy dwelling, the heavens, and bless your people Israel and the soil that you have given us, just as you swore to our forefathers, the land flowing with milk and honey" - (Deuteronomy 26:15)

If God was Omnipresent, would it really be necessary for him to have to "look down"? I think not. The Scriptures teach that Heaven and heaven alone is Gods "established place of dwelling"

 

[Willamena]

So I don't understand, how is God everywhere without being everything?

When "god" is everywhere else.

 

[idav]

If God is omnipresent according to the Bible, isn't Yahweh basically a pantheistic God?

To keep the creator component it would be closer to panentheistic which also leaves the possibility of supernatural intact since god would interpenetrate nature while also being outside of it.

 

[Penumbra]

"Do look down from your holy dwelling, the heavens, and bless your people Israel and the soil that you have given us, just as you swore to our forefathers, the land flowing with milk and honey" - (Deuteronomy 26:15)

If God was Omnipresent, would it really be necessary for him to have to "look down"? I think not. The Scriptures teach that Heaven and heaven alone is Gods "established place of dwelling"

There's a more specific one than that. That could be interpreted as metaphorical.

Genesis 18:20-21
Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

The Lord is depicted as being neither omnipresent or omniscient. He is vaguely aware of what's going on in a city, indirectly through prayers. There are other references of god having a limited area of concern as well. Many people today who follow religions relating to this deity seem to believe that their god knows everything about them on a highly personal level.

Whether the story is taken literally or as some story about god's actions, it doesn't seem to me that early authors of the Bible viewed their deity as some omnipresent, pantheistic sort of god. His character was concerned with actions for Israel, with a particular concern on warfare and individual behavior, rather than being depicted as a universal god of the cosmos.

 

[idav]

There's a more specific one than that. That could be interpreted as metaphorical.

Genesis 18:20-21
Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

The Lord is depicted as being neither omnipresent or omniscient. He is vaguely aware of what's going on in a city, indirectly through prayers. There are other references of god having a limited area of concern as well. Many people today who follow religions relating to this deity seem to believe that their god knows everything about them on a highly personal level.

Whether the story is taken literally or as some story about god's actions, it doesn't seem to me that early authors of the Bible viewed their deity as some omnipresent, pantheistic sort of god. His character was concerned with actions for Israel, with a particular concern on warfare and individual behavior, rather than being depicted as a universal god of the cosmos.

Some of the other books seem to imply being all knowing so there are some possible contradictions.

Job 37:16

Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.
​

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.
​

Luke 12:7

7But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

 

[Penumbra]

Some of the other books seem to imply being all knowing so there are some possible contradictions.

Job 37:16

Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.
​

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.
​

Luke 12:7

7But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Rather than viewing these as contradictions, I view it as people over the course of generations having different views of god. There can be contradictions when hundreds of years of literature is collected into a package and presented as being a coherent whole. There were many different authors, some earlier than others.

 

[Me Myself]

But how can you be everywhere and not be everything?

I´ve always asked myself that.

If he is everywhere, then he is in every infinitesimal of everything. He must be both surrounding a place, and inside it in every layer that this place may be.

Considering an atom could be called a "place" of sub atomic particles, well... eventually it just makes more sense to say that if he is everywhere then he IS such "everywhere"

 

[Madhuri]

I´ve always asked myself that.

If he is everywhere, then he is in every infinitesimal of everything. He must be both surrounding a place, and inside it in every layer that this place may be.

Considering an atom could be called a "place" of sub atomic particles, well... eventually it just makes more sense to say that if he is everywhere then he IS such "everywhere"

Well said

 

[Gaura Priya]

That's why I love panentheism. It gives God both the lovely understanding of pervading everything, as well as being all pervasive. That is, while His energy is within everything, He is also apart from it. The Gita recognises this apparent contradiction, where Krishna explains that He is part of the creation, and yet also not partaking of it.

Creation itself is a glimpse of God's glory and majesty, from the tiniest of subatomic particles, to the grandiose of elephants and other such regal creatures.

 

[Landerage]

The fact that he's everywhere, means he's not present in time and space. So God being outside time, he's able to go everywhere in time and change what he wants, and being out of space, would mean that when he change something, he is not in the place that the change occurs at but working remotely. I think that's everything a beleiver should know, the rest cannot be imagined by our minds I think.

 

[freethinker44]

The fact that he's everywhere, means he's not present in time and space. So God being outside time, he's able to go everywhere in time and change what he wants, and being out of space, would mean that when he change something, he is not in the place that the change occurs at but working remotely. I think that's everything a beleiver should know, the rest cannot be imagined by our minds I think.

Wow. It is amazing to me how you can say one thing and then immediataly claim the opposite to be true, at the same time.

The fact that he's everywhere, means he's not present in time and space.

The fact that he is everywhere means he is not everywhere?

So God being outside time, he's able to go everywhere in time and change what he wants, and being out of space, would mean that when he change something, he is not in the place that the change occurs at but working remotely.

So he is able to be anywhere at anytime and physically interfere with that time and space, but not be in that time and space?

 

[PolyHedral]

The fact that he's everywhere, means he's not present in time and space.

Yes it does; "everywhere" doesn't make sense without time and space.

 

[idav]

Yes it does; "everywhere" doesn't make sense without time and space.

If you mean everywhere in every dimension maybe.