On Religion

[fallingblood]

oh, im just getting warmed up my friend. i suggest you stop while you're behind.

Well you may need to try a little more. Maybe instead of trying to get warmed up, you should just come out with your best stuff.

your personal beliefs are your own business, but they contradict the very scriptures you claim to believe in.

And what scriptures did I claim to believe in? Oh wait, I didn't. Again, you making a baseless assumption based on your ignorance. Being a Christian does not mean one has to subscribe to the Bible and see it as scripture. In fact, many Christians, throughout history, have not used the Bible, or have had problems with it.

jesus said. 1+1=2 , then you come along, calling yourself a follower of jesus and simultaneously claim "no, no, this is false, 1+1 actually equals 3."

He never said that.

jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me", then you come along, calling yourself a follower of jesus and simultaneously claim "no no, this is false, jesus is not the only way.

Did Jesus really say that? Most likely not. It would be worth your time to do some research on the historical Jesus.

buddy, let me ask you something. if there are other ways to god/heaven/paradise, why would jesus even bother to come down and go through all the torture, pain and suffering of dying for your sins?? whats the point?? as a christian, are you really saying that jesus' sacrifice was meaningless??? if you are saying this, then you are NOT a christian.... you are nothing but a confused kid who thinks he is mighty enlightened because he chooses to remain ignorant to his own absolutist religion/god/faith that in actuality excludes every other god and religion.

First, I don't care about the after life. It doesn't matter to me.

As for why Jesus came, I don't believe it has anything to do with dying. Why? Because I have actually researched the historical Jesus, and can make an informed decision.

Again, I really don't care about the after life. I think Jesus is just one possible path.

Also, just so you know, it was the resurrection that really mattered. If there was no resurrection, there would have been no Christianity. Jesus would have been just one more Jew who was crucified.

Now before you define what I have to believe, maybe you should actually do some research before you make such uninformed posts.

and now my friend, i am warmed up, again i suggest you quit while youre behind.

If this is you being warmed up, then you really shouldn't have wasted your time. And really, just because you don't understand a religion, doesn't mean you can dictate what people have to believe.

 

[Cassiopia]

true, not every religion "excludes" non believers. but the largest, most influential/important ones do. and frankly, after christianity and islam, no one much cares about the rest. all you have to do is keep up with the news. none of the other religions are even close to touching the coverage christianity and islam are getting.

By what criteria are you using the words influential and important here?

Who are you to say that no one much cares about the rest?

I wonder what news coverage you watch (and suspect that the words "fox" and "news" might appear in the same phrase).

You know although I am not a Christian I have a certain amount of respect for the religion and a lot of respect for Jesus as an example of how people should live... And I just can't quite imagine Him saying "No one much cares about the rest!"

 

[SCHIZO]

Do you even know what wisdom is?

You are the one that said, knowing you know nothing is wise. Knowledge doesn't mean anything. The more you come to know the more you know what you knew becomes less or useless. And when you come to know more your previous knowledge seems invalid. And after that you come to know more and it further dimininishes the value of what you previously knew. It never ends. Then at some point you have no interest in what you have come to know so you take up another pursuit in knowledge and the cycle begins all over again. I do know this you must have interest in wisdom. Interest doesn't last forever.

Wisdom is knowledge of what is true united with just judgment. Wisdom isn't book learning. It's life experience. No one becomes wise from reading books they become wise with dealing and coping with life. Example: I didn't have wisdom when I was a child, I had book learning. It wasn't until I had an adult experience that I gained wisdom. The same can be said about every single one of us. You didn't gain wisdom reading your school books. You gained wisdom when you began to live your lives outside of school books.

Do you know what wisdom is?

 

[Riverwolf]

true, not every religion "excludes" non believers. but the largest, most influential/important ones do. and frankly, after christianity and islam, no one much cares about the rest. all you have to do is keep up with the news. none of the other religions are even close to touching the coverage christianity and islam are getting.

So? The fact that they're the only two that really do nullifies the statement that all of them do.

 

[SCHIZO]

Read the Bhagavatam, then, and decide for yourself.

I don't read books I make moral judgments by what people tell me. I don't want to search endlessly through some scribble to find absolutely nothing. I'm not impressed by holy scriptures. I don't drink wine and become intoxicated by words--and that is what every holy book intends.

 

[SCHIZO]

Thanks for believing that you know what my beliefs are and what my scriptures are. I'm sure I can now practice Christianity in the right way now.

Or maybe you can just admit that you don't know what you're talking about, that you don't understand what Christianity really is (or Christainities) and just stop while you're ahead.

It is the belief of Christianity that only through Christ do you find eternal life and salvation. It is right in the scriptures of the bible. And it is what most Christians believe.

 

[Riverwolf]

You are the one that said, knowing you know nothing is wise.

That is an aphorism that declares what is wise, but not what wisdom actually is.

Knowledge doesn't mean anything. The more you come to know the more you know what you knew becomes less or useless. And when you come to know more your previous knowledge seems invalid. And after that you come to know more and it further dimininishes the value of what you previously knew. It never ends. Then at some point you have no interest in what you have come to know so you take up another pursuit in knowledge and the cycle begins all over again. I do know this you must have interest in wisdom. Interest doesn't last forever.

That's not an endless cycle; that's called a journey. It takes knowledge gained somehow to gain wisdom.

Wisdom is knowledge of what is true united with just judgment. Wisdom isn't book learning. It's life experience. No one becomes wise from reading books they become wise with dealing and coping with life. Example: I didn't have wisdom when I was a child, I had book learning. It wasn't until I had an adult experience that I gained wisdom. The same can be said about every single one of us. You didn't gain wisdom reading your school books. You gained wisdom when you began to live your lives outside of school books.

Do you know what wisdom is?

Wisdom is the ability to use knowledge effectively. That's why even if someone only knows a few things, yet can use them well, is wiser than the one who has learned a lot but doesn't use them very well, if at all.

BTW, school books weren't the only books I read or had read to me, and now, in college, about 90% of the time, textbooks are worthless. But there is no story that cannot have a lesson, no book which does not have something which can be applied to real life, whether it be a piece of religious scripture, or The Complete Book of Dwarves.

Life experience alone is not good enough, because it's limited. You may be lacking that one small piece of information that could completely change your entire worldview, which may not be available except through books.

 

[SCHIZO]

See? you learned something by reading today. :yes:



Think you're confusing seeking with seeing.



This is why God gave (some of us) the ability to discriminate between useful and useless knowledge.

And anyone who reads these posts will know exactly what heaps of garbage someone has been shoveling into their mind.

You're a man of words. Try consider silence. Is there any wisdom in silence? Is all truth found in silence? Contemplate silence, the opposite of what you are used to, and then tell me if you have found wisdom. Do it for years. Can't do it can you? Words are in opposition to silence. Words overpower silence. You feel like you have to speak (think) in order to live don't you? There's a heap a garbage to shovel into your mind.

 

[SCHIZO]

Simple: they don't.

Give an example. The principle is the same every religion has special knowledge that the participants must adhere to in order to benefit from it in some way while others, outside the faith, are excluded from the imaginary benefit.

 

[Riverwolf]

Give an example. The principle is the same every religion has special knowledge that the participants must adhere to in order to benefit from it in some way while others, outside the faith, are excluded from the imaginary benefit.

Most Pagan and revivalist religions, many forms of Hinduism, Buddhism... even the Qur'an says that all you have to do is believe in God and the last day and you're golden.

 

[SCHIZO]

Yep, that is what I am telling you. If you actually took the time to research those religious outlooks, you would see that in fact, not all of them teach such a black and white outlook.
Honestly, I don't care at all about the after life. Many religious people don't. So really, I have no want to answer these questions.
Again, I don't care about the after life. Would I say that you go to hell for eternity? No, I don't believe in a hell. Do I think there is an unforgivable sin? No, I think that is foolish.

You should read John Shelby Spong.
Honestly, I think you are primarily focusing on Christianity, possibly Islam a little bit. Not any religion you really understand though.

You need to read the books of Christ, Buddha and Mohammed. ALL OF THEM SAY IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW A PATH, BELIEVE IN ME, OR PRACTICE THIS FAITH YOU CANNOT INHERIT AN ETERNAL REWARD.

 

[SCHIZO]

More sweeping generalizations. I should be used to that by now, but I don't think I ever will get used to it.

This should be specific enough lets talk about Christianity.

 

[Cassiopia]

Give an example. The principle is the same every religion has special knowledge that the participants must adhere to in order to benefit from it in some way while others, outside the faith, are excluded from the imaginary benefit.

How do you adhere to knowledge?

Okay, as a Pagan I believe some things and I learn some things that other people don't. But nobody is excluded. Anybody can learn if they choose to follow that path.

The same would apply to a cook, or a plumber or a ballroom dancer. What is the point you are making?

 

[SCHIZO]

False.
False.
False.
What principle do you claim that they share exactly? What reward?How would you know? Some people have a high tolerance.
Well whoopty-doo for you. False.Nope, it really isn't. False. Are these the only religions you have any amount of information on? In your opinion. Every religion doesn't do that.

Now go put down your very broad brush and your very crappy paint, because you're making a childish mess.

Tell me about Wicca. There's no special knowledge that you claim to have that you benefit from that outsiders don't benefit from. And isn't the benefit imaginary?

The principle that every religion shares is that they all proclaim to have special knowledge that participants must adhere to in order to gain some imaginary benefit.

 

[Draka]

Tell me about Wicca. There's no special knowledge that you claim to have that you benefit from that outsiders don't benefit from. And isn't the benefit imaginary?

The principle that every religion shares is that they all proclaim to have special knowledge that participants must adhere to in order to gain some imaginary benefit.

There is no special reward or benefit just for being Wiccan that every other person isn't capable of attaining. It's just a set of beliefs pertaining to what Deity is and how we can access and communicate with Deity. There is nothing that says that others cannot access and communicate with Deity in their own way. Most Wiccans believe in Summerland and reincarnation. There is no concept of hell or punishment or the like. So there is no punishment for not being Wiccan. There is no belief in some reward that Deity will bestow on just Wiccans for the mere fact that we're Wiccans. All paths are valid paths to attaining knowledge and progressing the spirit.

 

[fallingblood]

It is the belief of Christianity that only through Christ do you find eternal life and salvation. It is right in the scriptures of the bible. And it is what most Christians believe.

You are incorrect. First, that is not the belief of Christianity. It is one belief of Christianity that some Christians subscribe to.

Second, it is not in my scriptures. One does not have to see the Bible as scripture, or infallible to be a Christian. So really, you have no argument.

 

[fallingblood]

You're out of you're mind you need to read the books of Christ, Buddha and Mohammed. ALL OF THEM SAY IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW A PATH, BELIEVE IN ME, OR PRACTICE THIS FAITH YOU CANNOT INHERIT AN ETERNAL REWARD.

Haha. First, books do not define a religion. I don't have to follow any of those books in order to be part of those religions.

Second, you are taking things out of context. Those "books" contain many different teachings, some of which contradict each other. I'm fine with that. So just because you can find one place that those books state one thing, it doesn't mean it also won't state something else.

Finally, I am Christian, I reject your OP as uninformed, as I am proof that your OP was flawed.

 

[fallingblood]

This should be specific enough lets talk about Christianity.

Which brand of Christianity? Because not all sects agree with each other. Some don't even subscribe to a certain sect. Again, maybe you should read John Shelby Spong. He would show you, beyond a doubt, that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Simply, you're wrong. Your entire argument is based on ignorance, and a very narrow point of view.

 

[turk179]

All religion seems pretentious to me. Every participant in any particular faith seems to exagerate their importance and the importance of the knowledge that their faith proclaims. Of any religion, only its participants are supposedly granted the benefits and rewards by the faith's central focus (eg. a deity). All outsiders who do not adhere to the faith are refused the benefits and rewards.

All religions are the same. You have a (path) you must follow in order to receive a reward after death. If there are so many different religions to follow, all professing the same principle what is the point of following any? They differ in so many ways on the path to receive that reward, yet none is profound. Its all wine I tell you. People get drunk off of wine. People get drunk off of religion.

But I just find it pretentious, every faith and denomination--that every particular one of them would expressly leave out everybody else from reward and benefit just to magnify their own importance. It's a valid point. Every single faith proclaims that if you do not have this faith you are in some sort of trouble. From Islam to Buddhism to Christianity. It is a good philosophical question, Why does every religion exclude reward and benefit from those that do not share faith?

Do you find it pretentious that the bowling league requires you to show up for 75% of the games or you're off the team? Do you find it pretentious that the movie theater requires you to keep quiet or you're out of the theater? Even though your question is highly generalized and doesn't cover every religion, if you don't like the rules, stay out of the game.

 

[fallingblood]

I don't read books I make moral judgments by what people tell me. I don't want to search endlessly through some scribble to find absolutely nothing. I'm not impressed by holy scriptures. I don't drink wine and become intoxicated by words--and that is what every holy book intends.

That is your problem. You simply are unwilling to even try to learn about a religion. Of course you're going to have an ignorant and immature look at religion when you haven't taken the time to actually try to discover what those religions teach. That is why your OP is so off base, because you haven't tried to even learn.

Basically, what this comes down to is that you have an intolerance for ideas that are not yours.