On the showing of the “pride flag, and appropriate activism.

[fantome profane]

As I have noted a number of times above, there is no valid presumption of homophobia with respect to the Audubon society, so no LGBT person should feel at all uncomfortable in going there or using the facilities. According to the rationale that you suggest, every business and organization in the country should display a pride flag, just to ensure that LGBT people feel comfortable (even if they have no reason to feel uncomfortable) in using their services. Why don’t we display them prominently, then, on the national capitol, the Supreme Court and at the presidential mansion, then?

 

[Zwing]

View attachment 78948

The point? Is this every night, or was it a special occasion? We both know the answer, so your display is meaningless.

 

[Zwing]

The point? Is this every night, or was it a special occasion? We both know the answer, so your display is meaningless.

Actually, I have one question. When did the “pride flag” change from being a nice, bold rainbow flag to being this pastel-colored thing with a similar geometric pattern as the national flag of South Africa? It seems more like the “Jimmy Buffet vodka-infused tropical pride flag”, now! What’s up with that??

 

[SomeRandom]

…and inappropriately, in my opinion. Would the organization not be guilty of exclusivity, for if I were a police officer, and would like to see the “blue line flag” displayed in solidarity with me, would I not be prejudiced against by the sole display of the “pride flag”?

Not really. At least not in my view.

Granted our police aren’t nearly as despised as the US cops seemingly are right now. They don’t make a good case for themselves, I’m just saying. Their PR is slightly better right now lol
(When I visited family in California, not even kidding, the travel agent literally gave us written warnings not to “anger” police. This is several years ago. We were also given explicit instructions on what to do if confronted by a police officer, so as to not be shot. Again this is like 2013/14. Your cops are seen as rabid gun toting crazies internationally speaking. A reputation that is very old and I’ll admit perhaps a bit hyperbolic. Or maybe not, I don’t know.)

Regardless, cops are authority figures
It’s a bit different, socially speaking, to proudly display a flag supporting authority figures in society and a flag displaying a symbol for your support of a marginalised community. One that may even include cops. To display them together may ease tensions or cause more friction, depending on the community. Not sure

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There can be no supposition of homophobia from an organization like the Audubon Society.

None whatsoever, by the organization or any of its staff? Do you have anything to back this assumption up?

And do you expect a person to research the history of every organization they interact with, or do you think it's useful for an organization to have something to quickly communicate to customers at a minimum "you're welcome here. You won't be hassled for being gay."

If we are to suppose homophobia everywhere, why not make it mandatory for everybody to display this?

Not everywhere, but it's certainly common.

I have no idea where your suggestion of mandatory Pride flags is coming from.

Would you imply that the non-display of a pride flag suggests that the individual or organization in question is homophobic? That would be ludicrous, in my view.

I think in the current climate, a business that makes a point of not acknowledging Pride Month raises the question of why they chose not to do it.

It isn't a guarantee of homophobia, but it at least suggests there's a non-negligible risk of it.

Why are we to suppose that any particular organization which has no apparent history of speaking out against homosexuality might be homophobic?

Because homophobia is pretty common in the US.

And in any case, there are other reasons for flying the Pride flag. When done sincerely, it can be about for remembrance and acknowledgement of the struggles that LGBTQ people have gone through and continue to go through.

It's kind of like wearing a poppy for Remembrance Day. It's still meaningful even without having to stand out against a background of people who are happy about soldiers dying in war.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Actually, I have one question. When did the “pride flag” change from being a nice, bold rainbow flag to being this pastel-colored thing with a similar geometric pattern as the national flag of South Africa? It seems more like the “Jimmy Buffet vodka-infused tropical pride flag”, now! What’s up with that??

TikTok - Make Your Day

www.tiktok.com

There's a larger history video if you want it that breaks down the various pride flags, since it's gone through a number of revisions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, I have one question. When did the “pride flag” change from being a nice, bold rainbow flag to being this pastel-colored thing with a similar geometric pattern as the national flag of South Africa? It seems more like the “Jimmy Buffet vodka-infused tropical pride flag”, now! What’s up with that??

It's a combination of the traditional Pride rainbow with Transgender Pride flag, with black and brown stripes to recognize LGBTQ+ people of colour.

 

[Zwing]

It’s a bit different, socially speaking, to proudly display a flag supporting authority figures in society and a flag displaying a symbol for your support of a marginalised community.

I agree, and I agree with private individuals and certain organizations supporting said marginalized community. However, this is only applicable to organizations, such as Christian Churches, for which there is a valid presumption of LGBT phobia. Where such a presumption does not exist, the display seems unwarranted.

 

[Viker]

No, because if I want to utilize the Audubon Society’s nature trails, then I must be exposed to the overt display. I, then, am being inconvenienced by the display, seemingly without reason.

How do you feel when they display the American flag?

 

[Zwing]

There's a larger history video if you want it that breaks down the various pride flags, since it's gone through a number of revisions.

I think I like the original best.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is why I say that for a given Xtian church to display a pride flag is entirely appropriate, as it sends a meaningful message to people who might be homosexual. Christian doctrine, based upon certain bits of scripture within the Pauline texts, has ever been opposed to homosexuality, to the extent of calling it “an/the abomination”. For a church to fly the pride flag sends the message that “this is not our understanding of God’s will”. I see no such history of such beliefs from the Audubon Society, though, which is my point here.

So why do you think the Audubon Society decided to display a Pride flag?

Set aside this nonsense about how none of the reasons you think are valid apply. It's an action that they took, so obviously it was motivated by something. Why do you think they did it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, because if I want to utilize the Audubon Society’s nature trails, then I must be exposed to the overt display. I, then, am being inconvenienced by the display, seemingly without reason.

Your feelings of "inconvenience" at the sight of a Pride flag says more about you than it says about the flag.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think I like the original best.

Then put one up.

 

[Zwing]

P

How do you feel when they display the American flag?

It is a separate issue, but I tend to be anti-statist, and so don’t much like any national flags, so I look a bit askance at “old glory” anywhere. Even so, I think there is more reason for the Audubon to display the national flag than the pride flag.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I agree, and I agree with private individuals and certain organizations supporting said marginalized community. However, this is only applicable to organizations, such as Christian Churches, for which there is a valid presumption of LGBT phobia. Where such a presumption does not exist, the display seems unwarranted.

I don't see why being in a location where struggles are more prominent, or in response to an event or person within the business or customers is less 'warranted.'

We put up extra flags after one of our long time customers survived a suicide attempt after a messy divorce due to finding out she was trans. We also put up more flags in June for pride. We also put up more flags after the Pulse nightclub shooting even though it's on the opposite side of the country. Who is to say that our support such as we find reasons to give it are invalid or inappropriate?

 

[Zwing]

Then put one up.

I feel no need to, since nobody should presume that I am homophobic, which I am not, in the first place.

 

[SomeRandom]

I agree, and I agree with private individuals and certain organizations supporting said marginalized community. However, this is only applicable to organizations, such as Christian Churches, for which there is a valid presumption of LGBT phobia. Where such a presumption does not exist, the display seems unwarranted.

Why though? Why deny this to run of the mill organisations?
Should they not be allowed to express their support for certain causes, if the organisation wants to, seemingly?
I mean, if a gaming community displays a pride flag, despite many gamers being homophobic (and being a life long gamer, I can attest to this. Like hoo boy lol) is that not their right to do so, as an organisation?
Maybe not all agree, but not all agree on democratic outcomes either. It’s left to a vote. Maybe people in this community you cited voted and the side that wanted the flag displayed simply won. Is that not a reasonable explanation for this display?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

…and inappropriately, in my opinion. Would the organization not be guilty of exclusivity, for if I were a police officer, and would like to see the “blue line flag” displayed in solidarity with me, would I not be prejudiced against by the sole display of the “pride flag”?

"Thin Blue Line" flags are an affront to the values behind modern policing.

The idea that the police are a "thin blue line," separate and distinct from the citizens they serve runs completely counter to the idea at the core of Peelian Principles: the police are the public and the public are the police.

... but this is probably for a different thread.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I feel no need to, since nobody should presume that I am homophobic, which I am not, in the first place.

You just described being triggered by the sight of the Pride flag. Personally, I'm reserving judgment on whether you're homophobic.

In any case, my point was if there's a particular design of Pride flag you'd like to see more of, this is something you easily address with your own actions if you choose.

 

[Zwing]

The idea that the police are a "thin blue line," separate and distinct from the citizens they serve runs completely counter to the idea at the core of Peelian Principles: the police are the public and the public are the police.

... but this is probably for a different thread.

I agree, but this idea forms an assumption which appears generalized among police officers today. They rarely socialize with non-cops. I also agree about the blue line flag itself, but for a different reason: it bastardizes and corrupts the American flag, and unnaturally associates the police with patriotism, which I suspect to be intentional.