On the trinity

[Christinekay19691]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

 

[Oeste]

Hi @Christinekay19691, and welcome to the forum!

I would answer your question this way:

As repentant Christians, we are all one in Christ, and we all came to him the same way, by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8)'

We do not become "part" of the trinity or one triune God as God is spirit and has no parts.

When we speak of the triune God, we are referring to the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as one God. However, Christ, as you may recall, is "fully man and fully God".

As a man, Christ can be considered to have "parts", and 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 does a beautiful job of how we, as Christians, are tied together with Christ:

Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.​

There will be a unity of the mind and spirit which transcends race, ethnicity or gender (Galatians 3:28). This does not mean we will all be the same, uniform, or think like "Borgs", but we will all live harmoniously and bound by love (Colossians 3:14, Ephesians 5:2).

 

[DNB]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

In all your readings on the trinity, has any of it made sense to you, on any level?
The trinity is blasphemy, it is complete nonsense from start until finish.
God is not triune, as He cannot be quantified, and there is no such thing as a god-man as these are two entirely incompatible ontologies - the attributes of one, are antithetical to the other. You cannot be mortal and immortal at the same time, nor corporeal and spirit simultaneously, nor secular and transcendent.
Three all powerful persons in a single godhead is the quintessence of redundancy - nothing to separate or identify them but their names.

So, no, becoming one with God means becoming one in spirit. Just as a man and a woman are to become one, as King David and Jonathan become one, just as the Church must become one with Christ, just as Christ said: become one as I and the Father are one - nothing mysterious, ....even the three musketeers were one.

 

[Jimmy]

Welcome Chrissy,
The Holy Spirit can be a little tricky to understand. In my opinion the easiest way to understand it is by looking at it as the relationship between two living things such as the relationship between God and Jesus or humans and Jesus or God and humans or even the relationship between all three. So as far as your question, yes you are a part of the Trinity now and will be a part of the Trinity in heaven after you die.

 

[wellwisher]

In all your readings on the trinity, has any of it made sense to you, on any level?
The trinity is blasphemy, it is complete nonsense from start until finish.
God is not triune, as He cannot be quantified, and there is no such thing as a god-man as these are two entirely incompatible ontologies - the attributes of one, are antithetical to the other. You cannot be mortal and immortal at the same time, nor corporeal and spirit simultaneously, nor secular and transcendent.
Three all powerful persons in a single godhead is the quintessence of redundancy - nothing to separate or identify them but their names.

So, no, becoming one with God means becoming one in spirit. Just as a man and a woman are to become one, as King David and Jonathan become one, just as the Church must become one with Christ, just as Christ said: become one as I and the Father are one - nothing mysterious, ....even the three musketeers were one.

The easiest way to understand the trinity is with an analogy. I have done this before, but it is worth repeating. Picture a man name Joe, who is a son to his parents, a husband to his wife and a father to his children. He is one person, since he has only one social security number. However, he has three different hats he wears when interacting with his family. He is more submissive and respectful with his parents in ways he is not with his wife and children. He is intimate with his wife in ways he is not with his parents and children, and he is firm but fair with his children in ways he is not with this parents and wife.

In the Old Testament, the one God used the hat of the Father to communicate with the Jews. In the New Testament the one God used the hat of the Son to communicate with the Christians. The Holy Spirit is a third hat, the works of which, over 2000 years, have yet to be compile into the Modern Testament. People can commune with God, in any or all of these three ways, since all hats are from the substance of the one God.

In the example of Joe, he is a good son, father and husband and all his interactions are a blessing to his family. This binds them all.

We can extend this family analogy of Joe, to him also having brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews, and aunts and uncles; trinity plus trinity. This would be the six essences of God; six days, that connects to the extended family of man; other religions. These are the lost tribes of Israel scattered all over the world. This awareness will come only after the Third Testament is compiled, since the works of the Spirit were much broader than expected and impacts all in various ways. Joe can even have grandchildren; seven.

 

[Oeste]

The trinity is blasphemy, it is complete nonsense from start until finish.

We are all entitled to our private opinions, but it's pretty clear the vast majority of Christians think and believe otherwise.

God is not triune, as He cannot be quantified,

Perhaps this is the reason so many Christians disagree?

If God is not triune because "He cannot be quantified" then God cannot be one for the same reason.

So right out of gate, after announcing the trinity a "blasphemy" and "a complete nonsense from start until finish" you immediately launch into an argument that defeats itself.

 

[Jimmy]

We are all entitled to our private opinions, but it's pretty clear the vast majority of Christians think and believe otherwise.

Perhaps this is the reason so many Christians disagree?

If God is not triune because "He cannot be quantified" then God cannot be one for the same reason.

So right out of gate, after announcing the trinity a "blasphemy" and "a complete nonsense from start until finish" you immediately launch into an argument that defeats itself.

This isn’t a debate

 

[sun rise]

Welcome to RF.

You asked the question from a Christian reference point. But part of your question could be asked from an Eastern prespective.

First, the concept of a "trinity" exists outside of Christianity. In Hinduism there's Sat-chit-ananda (knowledge/power/bliss) and Brahma Vishnu Shiva (creator preserver destroyer).

said th become “one” with God

That is more of an Eastern-framed question. It can be referred to as "God realization"

then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

There's death and real death. The little death is "dropping the physical body", spending time in another realm and then taking a new body. The "real" death is when our souls are united with Divinity ("God realized"). In that sense you become one with satchitananda.

 

[Oeste]

This isn’t a debate

I agree.

 

[dybmh]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

My understanding is: you are rooted in the Godhead now; just like each and every aspect of creation, always and forever.

Creation is not a past event which was completed. It is an ongoing revelation of Godliness. What happens when you die is mystery. But, you are already part of the trinity. In the material realm, this is concealed, but the connection can still be felt in the heart.

 

[Quagmire]

***Thread moved to Religious Debates***​

 

[firedragon]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

Interesting question. What do you think "one with God" means? One as humans becoming a singular entity with God or one is purpose? This is the question you should think about. You should realize that biblically speaking, God is "one" as said in the Shema. Echad. One. Single. So contextually, this one with God business cannot mean humans joining God creating a God-head. So it has to be the latter meaning.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

If you take the Nicene Creed at face value, then mainstream Christian theology says no; Christ, as the only begotten son, is God become man, not man become God. 'We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father.'

But a case can be made from the Gospels, for your interpretation; 'At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.'

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

I have a question about us as humans and the trinity. I’ve read a lot on the trinity but still don’t seem to understand if we as “created” human beings, are said th become “one” with God, then do we become part of the trinity when we die?

I think that @Oeste phrased it rather well myself, but if it’s still puzzling, sometimes it’s easier to think of the Trinity as the sum of three different perspectives on being.

Father: perspective in theory; possession of “what” is [law/code/word].

Holy Spirit: perspective in principle; divine force/will from knowledge of “how”, or of what should be.

Son: [Christ] perspective in practice; the understanding of “why”, through embodiment (the “human” perspective).

Trinity: the above three combined, leading to omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience

So, in lack of better terms, I guess one could say that after its experience of embodiment, your soul “returns” to source [God] as a constant part of what always is.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Ajax]

In all your readings on the trinity, has any of it made sense to you, on any level?
The trinity is blasphemy, it is complete nonsense from start until finish.
God is not triune, as He cannot be quantified, and there is no such thing as a god-man as these are two entirely incompatible ontologies - the attributes of one, are antithetical to the other. You cannot be mortal and immortal at the same time, nor corporeal and spirit simultaneously, nor secular and transcendent.
Three all powerful persons in a single godhead is the quintessence of redundancy - nothing to separate or identify them but their names.

So, no, becoming one with God means becoming one in spirit. Just as a man and a woman are to become one, as King David and Jonathan become one, just as the Church must become one with Christ, just as Christ said: become one as I and the Father are one - nothing mysterious, ....even the three musketeers were one.

I agree, but in order to answer the OP, we must firstly establish what Trinity is.
In my view Jesus being fully man and fully God is a logical impossibility.
How can one be all-knowing and yet learn and grow in wisdom (as described in the Gospels)?
How can one be all-powerful and yet have human limitations?
How can one be unchangeable and eternal and yet experience change, suffering, and death?

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof, especially when even religion admits that the doctrine of the Trinity is incomprehensible to humans.
How then, could the Fathers of the Church who formulated the doctrine have managed to understand it?

 

[firedragon]

If you take the Nicene Creed at face value, then mainstream Christian theology says no; Christ, as the only begotten son, is God become man, not man become God. 'We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father.'

Does the nicene creed say God become man? As I remember, as you rightly said in the latter part, Jesus is eternally begotten, coequal with the father, as in the Holy Spirit. Or, am I forgetting something? Hmm.

 

[Ajax]

The Nicene creed differs from the final one which was adopted in the First Council of Constantinople (381).
Both creeds state that Jesus became man. However in the latter one, it has been inserted "begotten of the Father... before all worlds (æons)", among other changes.

Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DNB]

The easiest way to understand the trinity is with an analogy. I have done this before, but it is worth repeating. Picture a man name Joe, who is a son to his parents, a husband to his wife and a father to his children. He is one person, since he has only one social security number. However, he has three different hats he wears when interacting with his family. He is more submissive and respectful with his parents in ways he is not with his wife and children. He is intimate with his wife in ways he is not with his parents and children, and he is firm but fair with his children in ways he is not with this parents and wife.

In the Old Testament, the one God used the hat of the Father to communicate with the Jews. In the New Testament the one God used the hat of the Son to communicate with the Christians. The Holy Spirit is a third hat, the works of which, over 2000 years, have yet to be compile into the Modern Testament. People can commune with God, in any or all of these three ways, since all hats are from the substance of the one God.

In the example of Joe, he is a good son, father and husband and all his interactions are a blessing to his family. This binds them all.

We can extend this family analogy of Joe, to him also having brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews, and aunts and uncles; trinity plus trinity. This would be the six essences of God; six days, that connects to the extended family of man; other religions. These are the lost tribes of Israel scattered all over the world. This awareness will come only after the Third Testament is compiled, since the works of the Spirit were much broader than expected and impacts all in various ways. Joe can even have grandchildren; seven.

You didn't address not a single one of my contentions - there is no such thing as a god-man, and God is not redundant.
Occupations, vocations, titles and roles, are not analogous to the trinity - God made us versatile and multi-talented. If my profession is a baseball player, and I'm still a student of baseball, that doesn't necessitate two dimensions to my psyche or ontology - I am not biune.
Neither is Joe: he cannot be immortal and mortal at the same time, nor secular and transcendent. Nor can he be two different Fathers or Sons at the same time, as in the trinity. The trinity, each person is identical - they all wear the exact same hats at the exact same time because each is all powerful. If the economical trinity does not, the ontological surely can - each is the almighty God.

Nothing but stupid, idiotic nonsense, that even its most ardent proponents can't explain or even understand it - like yourself.

 

[DNB]

We are all entitled to our private opinions, but it's pretty clear the vast majority of Christians think and believe otherwise.

Perhaps this is the reason so many Christians disagree?

If God is not triune because "He cannot be quantified" then God cannot be one for the same reason.

So right out of gate, after announcing the trinity a "blasphemy" and "a complete nonsense from start until finish" you immediately launch into an argument that defeats itself.

You're correct - I worded that ambiguously.
God cannot be quantified into different parts, divisions, categories, or persons.
God is whole, complete, indivisible, unconfused, uncircumscribable, and transcendent.

The trinity is blasphemy: complete incomprehensible and defamatory nonsense from start until finish

 

[DNB]

I agree, but in order to answer the OP, we must firstly establish what Trinity is.
In my view Jesus being fully man and fully God is a logical impossibility.
How can one be all-knowing and yet learn and grow in wisdom (as described in the Gospels)?
How can one be all-powerful and yet have human limitations?
How can one be unchangeable and eternal and yet experience change, suffering, and death?

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof, especially when even religion admits that the doctrine of the Trinity is incomprehensible to humans.
How then, could the Fathers of the Church who formulated the doctrine have managed to understand it?

Was your question rhetorical? Those that formulated the creed clearly didn't understand a word that they said, and there is not a single proponent of the doctrine today who can articulate a coherent and non-contradictory explanation, on any level.
One of the many proofs that the doctrine is from the devil, is that you will always watch a rather astute man turn into a babbling fool whenever he attempts to defends the doctrine - each and every time, unequivocally.
It's complete idiotic nonsense.