On the variety of God proofs

[Jeremiahcp]

Science has been practically tripping over the evidence for the past 100 years testing special relativity and with all the CERN work.

God of the Gaps. Next please.

 

[idav]

God of the Gaps. Next please.

Nope the gaps have been filled for a pantheistic god. I'm no looking for places to hide in science, your not talking to a fundy.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Nope the gaps have been filled for a pantheistic god. I'm no looking for places to hide in science, your not talking to a fundy.

You are flailing your God label around, I have seen it time and time again. It is not a convincing argument and a very long way from real evidence.

 

[idav]

You are flailing your God label around, I have seen it time and time again. It is not a convincing argument and a very long way from real evidence.

You'd have to get specific as to what you found unconvincingz. All you've done is disagreed and not presented why. I thought the proof was sound, heck I could probably even formalize it. I've seen people have plenty to say about Bible God but not manny good arguments against a pantheistic god. It's not something that I want, at something that makes more sense than Bible God or atheism. I have seen the atheist take on things also and I remain unconvinced.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You'd have to get specific as to what you found unconvincingz. All you've done is disagreed and not presented why. I thought the proof was sound, heck I could probably even formalize it. I've seen people have plenty to say about Bible God but not manny good arguments against a pantheistic god. It's not something that I want, at something that makes more sense than Bible God or atheism. I have seen the atheist take on things also and I remain unconvinced.

My God, it always boils down to these game and this nonsense. I want to see a real photo of God, do you have a photo of God? Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[idav]

My God, it always boils down to these game and this nonsense. I want to see a real photo of God, do you have a photo of God? Pics or it didn't happen.

Yes I realize you want a picture. That's not asking for much lol.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Yes I realize you want a picture. That's not asking for much lol.

Something real, tangible and undeniably God. Please try to understand that I am sick to death of debating god theories, and it is theory you have, not actual hard evidence.

 

[idav]

Something real, tangible and undeniably God. Please try to understand that I am sick to death of debating god theories, and it is theory you have, not actual hard evidence.

I leave the evidence to the science. Theories work by gathering the evidence and giving an interpretation. It isn't that there is no evidence but we disagree on what that evidence entails. When I see scientists playing with the power of the sun, I interpret that as playing with the power of God that is within all. The evidence is there that so much power is within even a single atom, so there is evidence that power potential is indeed within all of us, potential energy is the
the scientific term. There's the problem with evidence, I see it all around due to my worldview.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I leave the evidence to the science. Theories work by gathering the evidence and giving an interpretation. It isn't that there is no evidence but we disagree on what that evidence entails. When I see scientists playing with the power of the sun, I interpret that as playing with the power of God that is within all. The evidence is there that so much power is within even a single atom, so there is evidence that power potential is indeed within all of us, potential energy is the
the scientific term. There's the problem with evidence, I see it all around due to my worldview.

And if you went back hundreds of years ago with an iPhone they would call it magic, maybe even the power of God or the power of the Devil.

 

[idav]

And if you went back hundreds of years ago with an iPhone they would call it magic, maybe even the power of God or the power of the Devil.

Playing with an iPhone is not the same as contemplating ontology.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Playing with an iPhone is not the same as contemplating ontology.

You are right, as the invention of the smart phone has been far more beneficial.

 

[idav]

You are right, as the invention of the smart phone has been far more beneficial.

Technology would be useless without the physics involved.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Technology would be useless without the physics involved.

Everything would be useless without the physics involved.

 

[idav]

Everything would be useless without the physics involved.

Ok well metaphysics deals with physics so I think the answers to the questions are important, even if you just want the knowledge to build a smart phone.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Best proof of a god is in the laws of nature. This universe is a closed system and as such nothing can be created or destroyed in this system, which means all that exists was not created, it had to already exist.

The majority opinion amongst Scientists is, it started from a Singularity. GOD says, HE Created it and is outside of the closed system.

Pantheism reconciles it by pointing at existence as god. If the laws of nature are beyond creation, then existence is its own God, which is the same as saying God exists in reality.

GOD creates the Laws governing everything in Nature. Whilst He is above His Creation, He is still closer to us than our jugular vein, and knows every thought that passes through our mind. Of course He knows this about all 7+ Billion people on the Planet at the same time, whilst being aware of the movements concerning every leaf, grain of sand, drop of rainwater and star in the Cosmos.

There are many paths to knowing GOD and no one group claims to have a monopoly on Him. What He does make clear however is, HE is ONE and UNIQUE with NOTHING comparable unto HIM.

 

[idav]

The majority opinion amongst Scientists is, it started from a Singularity. GOD says, HE Created it and is outside of the closed system.

Well then what God says is inaccurate to his own law. The law of thermodynamics, with conservation of energy, nothing can be created or destroyed, which makes this universe eternal and immortal, and not a creation.

 

[ChristineM]

There are many God proofs. Let us start with "5 ways of Thomas A."
Five Ways (Aquinas) - Wikipedia

So the work of Thomas has be described as:

1. God is the First Cause (the events are caused), is the Lawmaker (there are laws), is the Reason (there is reasonable system of notions and definitions), and First Mover (the things are moving). The fuel of stars (hydrogen) is being burned out without compensation, so there must be Immaterial Beginning of Material World.

Many other proofs can be added.

2. The time machines do exist in Science, so the God is needed to solve their paradoxes. God and Reason can not be separated.

3. Let us calculate probability of Allknowing Being. He -by definition- knows all, thus, He knows about own existence. Therefore, the probability of Him is exact 100 percent.

4. The existence of God is dogma. A dogma is the absolute true knowledge. Thus, the God is proved among theists. According to theists, the blasphemers have not disproved any of the proofs. The theists are forbidden to lie, thus, the liars are the blasphemers of the proofs.

5. If one finds a watch in forest, he is exactly 100% sure, that it came from Watchmaker with Free-will (by definition of a human). Thus, there is Nature-maker in our sub-conscious knowledge.

The ontological proofs, e.g.,

6. The work of Kant can be described following:
The Free Will is obvious (otherwise there can not be the prisoners), so, there is God.

7. The work of Anselm gives:
we can think of infinitely influential being. If He does not exist in outside reality, then He is not infinitely influential. Then because of law of non-contradiction, the being in our mind lives in outside reality.

They are not proofs, they are unsubstantiated opinions

 

[questfortruth]

Best proof of a god is in the laws of nature. This universe is a closed system and as such nothing can be created or destroyed in this system, which means all that exists was not created, it had to already exist. Pantheism reconciles it by pointing at existence as god. If the laws of nature are beyond creation, then existence is its own God, which is the same as saying God exists in reality.

Are there a satanists, atheists, etc?
To call True God as: "Flying Spaghetti Monster", "Pink Dragon in my garage", "tree", "table", "Nature", "Cosmos", "nothing-ness", "satan" is the "names calling fallacy".

 

[idav]

To call True God as: "Flying Spaghetti Monster", "Pink Dragon in my garage", "tree", "table", "Nature", "Cosmos" is the "names calling fallacy".

If a Flying Spaghetti Monster created itself along with being the universe then it deserves the title God. You can label it how you want the important thing are the god attributes.

 

[questfortruth]

If a Flying Spaghetti Monster created itself along with being the universe then it deserves the title God. You can label it how you want the important thing are the god attributes.

God likes God-approved names. The name calling fallacy mixes together two different things, e.g.: Spaghetti = Jesus Christ.