On the variety of God proofs

[Muslim-UK]

Well then what God says is inaccurate to his own law. The law of thermodynamics, with conservation of energy, nothing can be created or destroyed, which makes this universe eternal and immortal, and not a creation.

Sorry but as HE is outside of the closed system, HE is not subject to the Laws HE Created.

Think of a computer program as being our closed system, with the programmer naturally excluded from the rules of the program.

 

[idav]

Sorry but as HE is outside of the closed system, HE is not subject to the Laws HE Created.

Think of a computer program as being our closed system, with the programmer naturally excluded from the rules of the program.

Great, he's just magic and can break any rules. Thats not a proof nor is it convincing.

 

[idav]

Sorry but as HE is outside of the closed system, HE is not subject to the Laws HE Created.

Think of a computer program as being our closed system, with the programmer naturally excluded from the rules of the program.

Great, he's just magic and can break any rules. Thats not a proof nor is it convincing.

 

[questfortruth]

1) Proofs rest on unverifiable premises?! You have just a wishful thinking fallacy.

2) The circles of life does not apply the circular time: the Beginning of Universe is not the End of it. To power the circle of life a fuel is needed.

3) According to Einstein, the falling body is in weightless, thus, there is no force of gravity in General Relativity.

4) What is knowledge? It is an any proven thing. Proven to God. So, the God is Knowledge.

5) "God of the Gaps" will remain forever in Physics. Because there is Theology in top Universes: the Science is not only the Physics. Science is the Quest for Knowledge, and faith is the faithfulness to Knowledge. Thus, the Gaps in Physics are filled with information from Theology. So, there are no gaps in Reality.

Are you pantheist, satanist, atheist, pagan, etc?
To call True God as: "Flying Spaghetti Monster", "Pink Dragon in my garage", "tree", "table", "Nature", "Cosmos", "nothing-ness", "satan" is the "names calling fallacy". God likes God-approved names. The name calling fallacy mixes together two different things, e.g.: Spaghetti = Jesus Christ.
God is defined as "absolutely superior one". We are stronger than tree, thus we can not write "God=Tree", otherwise it is name-calling fallacy.

All of the so-called "proofs" for god's existence have been refuted because they are logically unsound because they rest on unverifiable premises. Of course god's non-existence has never been proven either, but neither has the non-existence of the tooth fairy.

God of the Gaps. Next please.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Great, he's just magic and can break any rules.

He lives by His own rules.

Thats not a proof nor is it convincing.

We have revelation from Him, which is ample proof for us.

Pantheism is the view that the world is either identical to God, or an expression of God’s nature. It comes from ‘pan’ meaning all, and ‘theism,’ which means belief in God. So according to pantheism, “God is everything and everything is God.”

Do you hold to the statement above, and if so, what evidence do you have showing He's in and around everything?

 

[idav]

Do you hold to the statement above, and if so, what evidence do you have showing He's in and around everything?

Physics. Have you seen what happens when we tap the power of an atom. There is so much potential energy in all of us that it's like harnessing the power of the sun. That's all around and within everything, energy and potential energy.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Physics. Have you seen what happens when we tap the power of an atom. There is so much potential energy in all of us that it's like harnessing the power of the sun. That's all around and within everything, energy and potential energy.

Where did the Atoms come from?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Where did the Atoms come from?

Not from your fairy tale.

 

[questfortruth]

Where did the Atoms come from?

They are created. Look, there are many more proofs of the Creator:

5a. The DNA and seeds contain information (plan) how to build the organism. There must be source of information: God. The God is Informator (there is information). Denial of information, is just part of denial of all – absolute solipsism. Look: word “reality” is defined as “that, what comes from God.” You have no alternative definition “that, what all see all time”, because there can be permanent mass-hallucination, e.g.: “Adolf Hitler is holy German Führer”. So, denial of God is the denial of All Reality,´it is solipsism. So, the atheists lie, what there is no information in DNA.

5aa. The genetics have discovered, that all humankind are brothers and sisters: have common father and mother. Ask for link in private email.

5b. The science has determined, that there are wonders (the blasphemers call them “God of Gaps”) in Reality: Holy Fire, Miracle of Lanciano, Shroud of Turin, miracles of the Holy Icons. Ask for links in private email.

5c. Millions and billions of theists have been infinitely horribly tortured. The tormentors were (and are) demanding of them to accept atheism. The holy martyrs have kept the faith. Zero atheists were infinitely horribly tortured to accept theism. Because everyone knows in own sub-conscious: the atheism is just a worthless sickness.

 

[questfortruth]

"The theists are forbidden to lie, thus, the liars are the blasphemers of the proofs" ... fabrication, Batman!

The theists can not lie by definition of theists (which is holy nation, the Body of Godman), thus, the liars are the blasphemers of the proofs. The denial of theists' existence is the empty part of the empty absolute solipsism. Nothingness is the false god of God-blasphemers.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Circles do not have a starting point.

What is in motion is called karma. Our actions. What we did in the past affects us today. What we do today affects us tomorrow. We are in an ever ending cycle of causes and affects.

There's no evidence for this. If true, we would all have knowledge of our 'past' lives and actions, so tat we could learn from them, but that's not what we see.

What you've done is fall into the deception of worshipping creation rather than the Creator.

The ball rolls down hill by gravity. No one is constantly pushing the ball because there is no "top of the hill" and there is no bottom.

The "mover" if you want to use that word is energy not god.

Energy can not magically create itself. There must have been a uncaused first cause outside of the closed system. Logically it follows GOD created the cause, which gave rise to the Universe, and everything within it.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Something real, tangible and undeniably God. Please try to understand that I am sick to death of debating god theories, and it is theory you have, not actual hard evidence.

Where's your hard evidence showing what caused the Universe and where the code written in DNA comes from.

 

[Muslim-UK]

They are not proofs, they are unsubstantiated opinions

No different then to what the 'Science of the Gaps' corner has to offer.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Where's your hard evidence showing what caused the Universe and where the code written in DNA comes from.

Unlike you I don't pretend to know such things, guess my ego is just not as big as yours.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There's no evidence for this. If true, we would all have knowledge of our 'past' lives and actions, so tat we could learn from them, but that's not what we see.

Hit your friend and see what he does. Keep hitting him and see how your karmic relationship changes or affects your relationship. You made a cause. You got an affect. Once you made the cause, htting, do you forget about it? Unless you have poor memory (making a point), Im sure you will remember your past and predict the future based on your actions.

Kamma means action. Many people have knowledge of their past lives; and, yes, we learn from the past even if its just an hour ago.

What you've done is fall into the deception of worshipping creation rather than the Creator.

I dont see how this relates.

Energy can not magically create itself. There must have been a uncaused first cause outside of the closed system. Logically it follows GOD created the cause, which gave rise to the Universe, and everything within it.

I said energy is the mover. Energy is god. You said energy has no cause. Energy (in this case heat) is what makes things function and form not create. You cant live without energy/god. The action itself not the cause of it.

I dont see how you got to that conclusion? Sounds like assumption not fact.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

No different then to what the 'Science of the Gaps' corner has to offer.

In science the general practice when you don't know something is to go, "Hey I don't know this.", in religion the general practice is to start making things up. Religion is for people with egos so large that they can't admit to this lack of knowledge.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No different then to what the 'Science of the Gaps' corner has to offer.

The difference, Muslim, is science can admit and see its "gaps." Many believers are blind to the gaps. They think everything they "believe" is fact. Yet, even if you scientificly found the first cause (or energy has a beginning), you still at the cross roads of not attributing this cause as a being especially a being from the Quran and not Paganism or Hinduism.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

They are created. Look, there are many more proofs of the Creator:

5a. The DNA and seeds contain information (plan) how to build the organism. There must be source of information: God. The God is Informator (there is information). Denial of information, is just part of denial of all – absolute solipsism. Look: word “reality” is defined as “that, what comes from God.” You have no alternative definition “that, what all see all time”, because there can be permanent mass-hallucination, e.g.: “Adolf Hitler is holy German Führer”. So, denial of God is the denial of All Reality,´it is solipsism. So, the atheists lie, what there is no information in DNA.

5aa. The genetics have discovered, that all humankind are brothers and sisters: have common father and mother. Ask for link in private email.

5b. The science has determined, that there are wonders (the blasphemers call them “God of Gaps”) in Reality: Holy Fire, Miracle of Lanciano, Shroud of Turin, miracles of the Holy Icons. Ask for links in private email.

5c. Millions and billions of theists have been infinitely horribly tortured. The tormentors were (and are) demanding of them to accept atheism. The holy martyrs have kept the faith. Zero atheists were infinitely horribly tortured to accept theism. Because everyone knows in own sub-conscious: the atheism is just a worthless sickness.

How did you get from DNA having a plan (structure not plan)
and god?

And why one god over another?

Please explain the logic of how you solve the equation (how they say, write your work out not just the answers)

 

[ChristineM]

No different then to what the 'Science of the Gaps' corner has to offer.

Science of the gaps? Funny how fundamentalist choose to pervert a statement and make it total irrelevant tosh.

"In science there are no universal truths, just views of the world that have yet to be shown to be false"
Professor Brian Cox.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Are you pantheist, satanist, atheist, pagan, etc?
To call True God as: "Flying Spaghetti Monster", "Pink Dragon in my garage", "tree", "table", "Nature", "Cosmos", "nothing-ness", "satan" is the "names calling fallacy". God likes God-approved names. The name calling fallacy mixes together two different things, e.g.: Spaghetti = Jesus Christ.
God is defined as "absolutely superior one". We are stronger than tree, thus we can not write "God=Tree", otherwise it is name-calling fallacy.

There are many God proofs. Let us start with "5 ways of Thomas A."
Five Ways (Aquinas) - Wikipedia

So the work of Thomas has be described as:

1. God is the First Cause (the events are caused), is the Lawmaker (there are laws), is the Reason (there is reasonable system of notions and definitions), and First Mover (the things are moving). The fuel of stars (hydrogen) is being burned out without compensation, so there must be Immaterial Beginning of Material World.

Many other proofs can be added.

2. The time machines do exist in Science, so the God is needed to solve their paradoxes. God and Reason can not be separated.

3. Let us calculate probability of Allknowing Being. He -by definition- knows all, thus, He knows about own existence. Therefore, the probability of Him is exact 100 percent.

4. The existence of God is dogma. A dogma is the absolute true knowledge. Thus, the God is proved among theists. According to theists, the blasphemers have not disproved any of the proofs. The theists are forbidden to lie, thus, the liars are the blasphemers of the proofs.

5. If one finds a watch in forest, he is exactly 100% sure, that it came from Watchmaker with Free-will (by definition of a human). Thus, there is Nature-maker in our sub-conscious knowledge.

The ontological proofs, e.g.,

6. The work of Kant can be described following:
The Free Will is obvious (otherwise there can not be the prisoners), so, there is God.

7. The work of Anselm gives:
we can think of infinitely influential being. If He does not exist in outside reality, then He is not infinitely influential. Then because of law of non-contradiction, the being in our mind lives in outside reality.

FROM DISCUSSION:

1) Proofs rest on unverifiable premises?! You have just a wishful thinking fallacy.

2) The "circles of life" does not apply the circular time: the Beginning of Universe is not the End of it. To power the circle of life a fuel is needed.

3) According to Einstein, the falling body is in weightless-ness, thus, there is no force of gravity in General Relativity.

4) What is knowledge? It is an any proven thing. Proven to God. So, the God is Knowledge.

5) "God of the Gaps" will remain forever in Physics. Because there is Theology in top Universes: the Science is not only the Physics. Science is the Quest for Knowledge, and faith is the faithfulness to Knowledge. Thus, the Gaps in Physics are filled with information from Theology. So, there are no gaps in Reality.

Since you seem to be a fan of logical fallacies, I submit you may like to familiarise yourself with the "begging the question" fallacy.