ONCE AGAIN! Facts in the Bible is supported by archaeology.

[shmogie]

Who are y'all talking about?
I've never heard anybody with any credibility say anything like that.

Actually, I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that at all.

Are you guys sure that anybody ever claimed this? Or did some Christian website claim that somebody said it, and you just believed them?
Tom

How old are you ? How much reading have you done on Pontius Pilate, and the controversy over him because he was';t on the extant list of Roman Governors of Judea ? I suspect, none

 

[PruePhillip]

They found both the place the cross was put and the grave that was used. But since Jesus is not her to talk for him self, a discussion like this is a wast of time. No belivers can not prove it wrong, and believers who use the bible as proves et laughet on by the non belivers.

I think that's pushing archaeology a bit too far.
It's enough that we know there really was a place called Nazareth,
and there was a guy called Pilot and a priest called Caiaphas. We
don't have to go the whole hog and find the personal details of Jesus'
life.

 

[ChristineM]

Pontius Pilate’s ring may have been discovered at ancient biblical fortress

Just another nail that keeps appearing again and again.

It's amazing, to me, how the information in the Gospels and letters are supported by facts that are discovered.

Pilate was a real figure, there is evidence outside the bible to his existence.

And the bible like all good fiction does include a little historical fact to keep he gullible glued.

Take Harry Potter for example, owls exist, alnwick castle exists so by your logic the harry potter stories must be true.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unless Jesus come back and say yes this is my tomb they can not prove it enough that non believers will believe it actually was the tomb of Jesus.

Just for fun let's pretend that the Jesus myth was true. Don't you think they might have found the wrong tomb? Jesus comes back and berates the people that found the wrong tomb as being foolish and gullible. Now that's a happy ending.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why all the mocking of those who believe?

I don't think it's mocking as much as people trying to put things into perspective.

Basically that fiction can be based on real people, places, and events. What you need is a connection.

If you were to find say an official record of Pontius Pilate presiding over a meeting with Jesus Christ in the historical record , that would be substantial.

Just finding a ring that had Pilate engraved on it would be supporting evidence concerning Pontius Pilate himself, but without nothing of note about Jesus Christ or any type of biblical event, it will do nothing by way of what the Bible States and its pages in regards to Pontius Pilate.

One would think given the evidences of people like Pontius Pilate there would be an equal amount in regards to Jesus Christ as it's being portrayed as a high-profile event. There are none of substantial worth aside from the fact that Pontius Pilate lived.

Also there would be a need to sync biblical accounts with the historical record. Many of the problems had to do with Pontius pilate's rank at the alleged time of his trial with Jesus as an example.

The bottom line is you can't make a case on silence, and a religious text is pretty much a worthless source if the historical record cannot harmonize with it. The Bible is clearly not a history book no more than it is a science book. It's a religious text recording the beliefs of a group of people long ago.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think Jesus would only show them the corret tomb if they have found an incorrect one now. The tomb in it self is irrelevant for the beliefe in a religion. for those who are Christians they do not need any prof. to believe Jesus was on earth to teach the truth within the Christian faith, just as i am a follower of Buddha Sakyamuni`s teaching. i know the teaching is there and it works for me, i dont look for the proves if he really was there or not, it is the teaching that is proves enough

 

[PruePhillip]

Pilate was a real figure, there is evidence outside the bible to his existence.

And the bible like all good fiction does include a little historical fact to keep he gullible glued.

Take Harry Potter for example, owls exist, alnwick castle exists so by your logic the harry potter stories must be true.

The broad sweep of the bible is the story of the Jewish people and their nation
of Israel, the Promised Land. Their story is largely corroborated through historical
documents and archeology. Furthermore, the Jewish exile and slavery after Jesus
and their ultimate return to Israel is something we are witnessing today. And that's
a miracle in its own right.
Many of things "scholars" said were false in this story, from the Bronze Age culture
to the time of Jesus has a lot more credence now.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How old are you ? How much reading have you done on Pontius Pilate, and the controversy over him because he was';t on the extant list of Roman Governors of Judea ? I suspect, none

You must be relying on some pretty old debates. Besides being well documented by Josephus, there was a Roman artifact found in 1961 that confirmed his existence:

Historical Notes: Pontius Pilate: a name set in stone

As I said, I have never heard any atheists make the claim that Pilate did not exist and you failed to support your slur against them.

 

[columbus]

How old are you ? How much reading have you done on Pontius Pilate, and the controversy over him because he was';t on the extant list of Roman Governors of Judea ? I suspect, none

I'm 60.
If this was ever a question I don't recall it.
Although I commonly dismiss implausible claims and assertions out of hand. If I ever heard someone claim that Pilate was fictional I would probably have done that. I've never questioned Pilate's existence, which isn't the same as believing everything in the NT is accurate.
Tom
ETA ~Are you sure that the people making this awkward assertion were atheists? Most of the human race is neither Christian nor atheist.~

 

[ChristineM]

The broad sweep of the bible is the story of the Jewish people and their nation
of Israel, the Promised Land. Their story is largely corroborated through historical
documents and archeology. Furthermore, the Jewish exile and slavery after Jesus
and their ultimate return to Israel is something we are witnessing today. And that's
a miracle in its own right.
Many of things "scholars" said were false in this story, from the Bronze Age culture
to the time of Jesus has a lot more credence now.

Yes there are some facts, as i said. That does not mean the story as a whole is true it just means that the story has some facts in it.

There is so much of the meat of the bible that is total bunkum.

Yes, the OT accounts for around 85% of the bible.

So the Jewish people being on the winning side in WW2 was a miracle?

 

[shmogie]

Who are y'all talking about?
I've never heard anybody with any credibility say anything like that.

Actually, I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that at all.

Are you guys sure that anybody ever claimed this? Or did some Christian website claim that somebody said it, and you just believed them?
Tom

Though mentioned by a few contemporary writers, like Josephus, who also wrote about Jesus, there was no evidence that someone named Pilate ever rule as Roman prefect in Judea.

"Until 1961 there was no concrete archaeological evidence that Pontius Pilate, the fifth governor oif Judea ever existed."

"The records of his administration disappeared completely: no papyri, no rolls, no tablets, no letters to Rome.. The Roman ruins that remained in Israel seemed to have nothing to do with him."

" In the summer of 1961 however, Italian archaeologists found a piece of limestone......................................the stone bore his name, and much else besides"

Quotations from The Independent, Historical Notes: Pontius Pilate: A name set in stone. Ann Wroe, 4/3/1999

Atheist scoffers used the fact that Pilate could not be found in the record as a reason to express the opinion that the name was made up by the writers of the Gospels. They noted that since Josephus and others had written of Christ ( who didn';t exist) and Pilate, these writings were proof that a fairy tale was circulating and was wide spread, and that there was no concrete evidence to support it.

The absence of Pilate in the record was a major point in the criticism of The Bible being an accurate record of fact.

This point was constantly used by many critics, professional and otherwise.

The discovery of the stone tablet in 1961, and the acceptance by academia of Pilate as a Roman prefect around the time that Christ was supposed to have been alive, totally eliminated this heretofore major criticism, and those who used it.

 

[shmogie]

I'm 60.
If this was ever a question I don't recall it.
Although I commonly dismiss implausible claims and assertions out of hand. If I ever heard someone claim that Pilate was fictional I would probably have done that. I've never questioned Pilate's existence, which isn't the same as believing everything in the NT is accurate.
Tom
ETA ~Are you sure that the people making this awkward assertion were atheists? Most of the human race is neither Christian nor atheist.~

Most were, but lets use the term deniers. I have gone into a little detail in response to another post of yours. There are 2 billion + Christians in the world, quite a few.,

 

[lukethethird]

Atheist scoffers used the fact that Pilate could not be found in the record as a reason to express the opinion that the name was made up by the writers of the Gospels.

In your dreams.

 

[shmogie]

A lack of corroborating historical evidence for something mentioned in the Bible doesn't necessarily translate to the Bible being in error. No serious scholar or historian would make such an assertion.
There's a big difference between a manuscript mentioning a well known fact and the veracity of the rest of the document.
Most fictional books contain many facts.

Many serious scholars and historians did make your alleged erroneous assertion, previous to the Pilate stone being found in 1961.

How many today assert that Christ never existed ? Quite a few.

 

[columbus]

Atheist scoffers used the fact that Pilate could not be found in the record as a reason to express the opinion that the name was made up by the writers of the Gospels.

Were there ever as many atheist Pilate deniers as there were believers in Jonestown?
Tom

 

[columbus]

There are 2 billion + Christians in the world, quite a few.,

There are 7 billion + humans.
The other 5 billions aren't atheists, mostly.
Tom

 

[Audie]

Pontius Pilate’s ring may have been discovered at ancient biblical fortress

Just another nail that keeps appearing again and again.

It's amazing, to me, how the information in the Gospels and letters are supported by facts that are discovered.

Why are you amazed by what you are so sure is true?
Or by the bible getting a few things right? Egypt,
say. Or the existence of swords. They could hardly
have gotten all their simple facts wrong.

Six day poof and flood- once (twice) and for all facts refute
supernatural claims in the bible.

And w/o "god" the bible is just stories.

 

[Audie]

Yes... And then there was a time when they said King David never existed.

Why do you bother with an occasional fact when most of the
time-as in your post here- you just make things up?

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Though mentioned by a few contemporary writers, like Josephus, who also wrote about Jesus, there was no evidence that someone named Pilate ever rule as Roman prefect in Judea. Until 1961 there was no concrete archaeological evidence that Pontius Pilate, the fifth governor of Judea ever existed."

A newspaper is not a reliable scholarly source! Contemporary writers are evidence, and do not need to be confirmed by inscriptions.

Atheist scoffers used the fact that Pilate could not be found in the record as a reason to express the opinion that the name was made up by the writers of the Gospels. They noted that since Josephus and others had written of Christ ( who didn't exist) and Pilate, these writings were proof that a fairy tale was circulating and was wide spread, and that there was no concrete evidence to support it.

These people were not scholars, either. As the classicist Michael Grant (not a Christian, I believe) wrote, no professional historian has even questioned the existence of Jesus.

When there are so many historical improbabilities in the Bible to try to defend, you're wasting your ammunition going after the crackpot fringe of atheism.

 

[lukethethird]

These people were not scholars, either. As the classicist Michael Grant (not a Christian, I believe) wrote, no professional historian has even questioned the existence of Jesus.

If he wrote that, he committed the logical fallacy of poisoning the well, not very professional of him.