Once saved always saved

[The Anointed]

The church uses that belief into scaring people into church.

The 68 year old who believed he was saved when he was 16, said; "I don't give a rats backside about your God who I have abandoned, I'm going to rape my neighbors 8 year old daughter, cos I was saved and am always saved.

Make no bones about it girl, you asked if the scriptures say that if a righteous person can lose the salvation that they was assured of, if they turns again to sin, as a swine once cleaned returns to wallow in its own muck, or a dog turns to eat it own vomit, then let me again reassure you that the bible does reveal that once saved does not mean always saved.

Ezekiel 18: 21; "But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die."

Ezekiel 18: 24; But when the righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, according to all the transgressions which the transgressor has wrought, none of his righteousness which he has wrought shall be at all remembered: in his trespass wherein he has trespassed, and in his sins wherein he has sinned, in them shall he die.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Dissqualified or dissaproved seem like acceptable renderings.
It means what it says, if we are not faifthful until death then we will not be saved. Believing in anything else is just presumptuousness.

On what grounds is your view more correct than InChrist's views?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ezekiel 18: 21; "But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die."

So, if a "wicked" person doesn't turn away but goes on to love their neighbor as they love them self?

 

[The Anointed]

So, if a "wicked" person doesn't turn away but goes on to love their neighbor as they love them self?

Not if it is their neighbors spouse and they are loving them in the bedroom.

 

[Riders]

The 68 year old who believed he was saved when he was 16, said; "I don't give a rats backside about your God who I have abandoned, I'm going to rape my neighbors 8 year old daughter, cos I was saved and am always saved.

Make no bones about it girl, you asked if the scriptures say that if a righteous person can lose the salvation that they was assured of, if they turns again to sin, as a swine once cleaned returns to wallow in its own muck, or a dog turns to eat it own vomit, then let me again reassure you that the bible does reveal that once saved does not mean always saved.

Ezekiel 18: 21; "But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die."

Ezekiel 18: 24; But when the righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, according to all the transgressions which the transgressor has wrought, none of his righteousness which he has wrought shall be at all remembered: in his trespass wherein he has trespassed, and in his sins wherein he has sinned, in them shall he die.

I believe the exact opposite is true. For those who believe you can lose your salvation, they go out and sin over and over then when they feel guilty go to church and respond tot he alter call reaccept Jesus as lord and get their free pass out of hell. They do it over and over which is why to me the alter call is BS.

 

[The Anointed]

I believe the exact opposite is true. For those who believe you can lose your salvation, they go out and sin over and over then when they feel guilty go to church and respond tot he alter call reaccept Jesus as lord and get their free pass out of hell. They do it over and over which is why to me the alter call is BS.

If you choose to deny the Holy Scriptures, and you do, that is your God given right. Do you honestly think that God does not know if the sinner at the altar is truly repentant and worthy of forgiveness, or if they are just trying to put one over on God?

 

[Riders]

I don't deny the scriptures you do. By saying God is not strong enough to save us once and for all your saying we have to earn salvation, its us working for it therefore the power of Gd isn't good enoigh to save us the first time.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not if it is their neighbors spouse and they are loving them in the bedroom.

That isn't answering but only dodging my question.

 

[Deeje]

I don't deny the scriptures you do. By saying God is not strong enough to save us once and for all your saying we have to earn salvation, its us working for it therefore the power of Gd isn't good enoigh to save us the first time.

Actually, I think you have that backwards. It has nothing to do with God's strength...that is undeniable. It has more to do with our own power over our thoughts and actions.

If we have God's spirit, then we will have the self-control needed to exercise restraint over what we do. All actions are preceded by thoughts, so if you get your thoughts under control first, then the actions will be under control as well.

2 Peter 1:5-8 says...."For this very reason, put forth all earnest effort to supply to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, 6 to your knowledge self-control, to your self-control endurance, to your endurance godly devotion, 7 to your godly devotion brotherly affection, to your brotherly affection love. 8 For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

As you can see, earnest effort is required on our part. All these qualities are necessary for a Christian. God can help us work on them. His spirit is stronger than our lack of willpower. All he needs to see is a heart willing to try.

 

[The Anointed]

I don't deny the scriptures you do. By saying God is not strong enough to save us once and for all your saying we have to earn salvation, its us working for it therefore the power of Gd isn't good enoigh to save us the first time.

RIDERS WROTE...….I don't deny the scriptures you do.

The Anointed...….. Sorry Girl, everyone who follows this thread, know that you lie when you say that you don't deny the Scriptures as seen below

Ezekiel 18: 21; "But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die."

Ezekiel 18: 24, But when the righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, according to all the transgressions which the transgressor has wrought, none of his righteousness which he has wrought shall be at all remembered: in his trespass wherein he has trespassed, and in his sins wherein he has sinned, in them shall he die.

RIDERS WROTE...…. By saying God is not strong enough to save us once and for all your saying we have to earn salvation, its us working for it therefore the power of God isn't good enough to save us the first time.

The Anointed...….. God has given each and everyone of us, the choice of eternal Life or eternal death. It's up to you which one you choose. Those who live by the law which states that we should do unto others that which we wish others to do to us, will be saved. But those who rape, murder, steal, etc and harm their fellow man, shall die.

Here is another scripture that you undoubtedly reject.

At the end of this age, when this world has disappeared, all the disembodied spirits are Judged, some (The Sheep) to inherit eternal life, others (The Goats) to eternal oblivion.

Revelation 21: 8; "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." It was their own choice to live the life that they did.

The blood of Christ guarantees the continued existence of mankind, but not the continued existence of those who choose death, by breaking the very law that is written on their hearts, the law that they impose on the society around them.

Thou shall not kill me or mine. Thou shall not lay with my spouse, thou shall not steal from me or mine, thou shall do no harm to me or my family, etc, etc.

Do you live by the law that you impose on your neighbors?

 

[Falvlun]

If you dont believe once saved always saved, its a sense that god is not capable of saving someone, God is not stupid. To me the silly alter calls asking people to get saved and re saved over and over is a fear tactic. Hey alter calls are not even biblical. Its a fear tactic used by preachers to keep people close tot he church.

Then they always ask are you sure your really saved making people question weather or not they are really saved, to me its abusive, its an abuse of religion, and holding people to fear instead of God.

So Ia m also criticizing the later call methods used in churches. The fact that they have to put people through the salvation process again, if its a new person, someone like my Mom who claimed to be saved at 8, people at AA wanted to get her and me into church so they can go get saved again.

There's no point in that, that's why my Mom never accepted anyone's invitation to church at AA. Its like telling God he didn't know what he was doing. For me it would only serve to scare me to death, there's no way.

I visited our old Baptist church from my childhood 5 years ago and they said for anyone who was transferring to church they wanted a referral name and address from their former church and if someone hasnt been in church for awhile they have to go through the salvational process again.

My Grandmother Mommie Ingram said their Baptist int he early 1900s and the 1920s did not have alter calls to accept Jesus as Lord. that came about in the 60s. ]

When someone started going to church it was because they believe in the Christian God, the alter call was to repent of their sins and get baptized and become a member. The accepting Jesus as Lord bit didn't come around till the 1960s.

It might be a Christian sect thing. There’s division with Christians and some denominations think that unless you are saved under their specific denomination then You weren’t actually saved.

But I agree with you. If the Christian god exists, then he knows what’s up. He knows that you already repented and accepted Jesus as the sacrifice for your sins. It can be faith affirming to publicly repent or to re-assert your faith, but I doubt it’d be necessary from a salvation POV, as long as you remained within the Christian faith.

 

[Riders]

Actually, I think you have that backwards. It has nothing to do with God's strength...that is undeniable. It has more to do with our own power over our thoughts and actions.

If we have God's spirit, then we will have the self-control needed to exercise restraint over what we do. All actions are preceded by thoughts, so if you get your thoughts under control first, then the actions will be under control as well.

2 Peter 1:5-8 says...."For this very reason, put forth all earnest effort to supply to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, 6 to your knowledge self-control, to your self-control endurance, to your endurance godly devotion, 7 to your godly devotion brotherly affection, to your brotherly affection love. 8 For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

As you can see, earnest effort is required on our part. All these qualities are necessary for a Christian. God can help us work on them. His spirit is stronger than our lack of willpower. All he needs to see is a heart willing to try.

God is stronger then anything I am able to think or do. No trying to get resaved over and over will do didly dot for my salvation. Why try to resave people get them through the alter call over and over?

 

[Deeje]

God is stronger then anything I am able to think or do. No trying to get resaved over and over will do didly dot for my salvation. Why try to resave people get them through the alter call over and over?

Not sure what you mean by "resaved" because you can only get saved once....and that doesn't happen until Jesus comes to judge the world. What we are getting "saved" from is God's anger when he brings unrepentant sinners to an accounting. There is no such thing as an alter call in the Bible. There is only a commitment to God through Christ by water baptism. Once you make the commitment, God expects you to follow through on it.
We have to keep up our vigil and not give way to sin. (Matthew 24:13) That is why self-control is a fruit of God's spirit. God's spirit is stronger than we are, but unless we do our own part and give him something to bless, he will not do it for us.

Galatians 5:19-24 highlights the difference between the works of the flesh and the fruitage of God's spirit....

"Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, 20 idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and things like these. I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom."

These are the things that can rob us of salvation as it plainly says...."those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom."

"22 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires."

So God's spirit can help us to overcome all the works of the flesh. The fact that we can control ourselves if proof that we have God's spirit. God will forgive us if we fall, but only if we are truly repentant. No repentance means no forgiveness. No forgiveness means no salvation. This is what the Bible teaches.

 

[Riders]

Not sure what you mean by "resaved" because you can only get saved once....and that doesn't happen until Jesus comes to judge the world. What we are getting "saved" from is God's anger when he brings unrepentant sinners to an accounting. There is no such thing as an alter call in the Bible. There is only a commitment to God through Christ by water baptism. Once you make the commitment, God expects you to follow through on it.
We have to keep up our vigil and not give way to sin. (Matthew 24:13) That is why self-control is a fruit of God's spirit. God's spirit is stronger than we are, but unless we do our own part and give him something to bless, he will not do it for us.

Galatians 5:19-24 highlights the difference between the works of the flesh and the fruitage of God's spirit....

"Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, 20 idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and things like these. I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom."

These are the things that can rob us of salvation as it plainly says...."those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom."

"22 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Moreover, those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed to the stake the flesh together with its passions and desires."

So God's spirit can help us to overcome all the works of the flesh. The fact that we can control ourselves if proof that we have God's spirit. God will forgive us if we fall, but only if we are truly repentant. No repentance means no forgiveness. No forgiveness means no salvation. This is what the Bible teaches.

Im talking about the alter responses the church requires when you start going to the church even if your already Christian. Then they encourage folks to keep responding to them and questioning weather or not they are really saved so they keep responding to alter calls.

 

[Deeje]

Im talking about the alter responses the church requires when you start going to the church even if your already Christian. Then they encourage folks to keep responding to them and questioning weather or not they are really saved so they keep responding to alter calls.

I have never been in a church that required "alter calls".....where will I find such things mentioned by Jesus?

As one of Christ's anointed, the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians....

"Keep testing whether you are in the faith; keep proving what you yourselves are. Or do you not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with you? Unless you are disapproved." (2 Corinthians 13:5)

This testing was something done inwardly. We don't have to prove anything to anyone but God and ourselves. God sees who we are when no one else can. We can fool ourselves and others, but we cannot fool him. We can become "disapproved" if we let down our guard and give in to willful and deliberate sin.

Hebrews 4:13...."And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account."

We are not saved until the very end when Jesus passes his judgment. (Matthew 25:31-33; Matthew 25:41)

Those who make the works of the flesh their "practice" will not inherit God's Kingdom. Plain as that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I dont believe Jesus as God but I do take biblical stands from a Christian viewpoint at times,................
My Dad was a Primitive Baptist and sometimes I wonder if I would not fit in with his church except my feelings on Jesus but I do see the point in my dads church on some things. They believe in the chosen generation that everyone is predestined to go to heaven or hell, there's no such thing as earning your way to heaven by accepting Jesus.
Where in the bible does it say we can lose our salvation? I don't understand the ministry of Jesus not sure I believe int he actual Jesus ,but I believe God saved me and I don't worry about it.

Jesus, at John 10:36, believed he is the Son of God, and still has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

I find the Bible does teach we can lose our salvation starting with Exodus 32:33 being blotted out of God's book.
At Exodus 34:7 God will Not clear the guilty.
At Psalms 69:28 lets us know God can blot people out of His book of the living.
Thus, the upright are the ones who are saved - Psalms 7:10
At Matthew 24:13 Jesus said to endure to the end in order to be saved.
Along with Revelation 3:5 mentions the one who overcomes will Not have his name blotted out of the Book of Life.
And that explains why Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be ' destroyed forever '.

So, people are Not predestined but we all have free-will choices to 'obey' God or not - Deuteronomy 30:19,15
Obeying God is Not earning salvation, but obeying Him out of love as a loving child obeys a loving parent.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.............. reaccept Jesus as lord and get their free pass out of hell.

First of all, I think we need to establish 'to which hell' are they thinking they get a free pass out of hell ___________
There is the Bible's hell, and a religious-myth hell teaching of burning forever being taught as being Scripture.
The Bible teaches hell (sheol/hades) and hell fire (Gehenna) .
Sheol is the Hebrew word, and sheol is just the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever, Not burning forever.
When King James translated the word Gehenna (garbage pit) into English as hell fire that put flames in biblical hell.
The day Jesus died he did Not go to hell fire but to the grave - Acts 2:27.
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell.
Both Jesus and the OT teach 'sleep in death'- John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
So, while in biblical hell ( grave for the sleeping dead ) Jesus would have been in a sleep-like state.
Also, if biblical hell was a permanent place there would be No need for Jesus to have keys - Revelation 1:18.
Furthermore, doesn't the 'Bible's hell' come to final end according to Revelation 20:13-14________
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up' (meaning resurrected out of hell (grave), then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell.

 

[Riders]

I have never been in a church that required "alter calls".....where will I find such things mentioned by Jesus?

As one of Christ's anointed, the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians....

"Keep testing whether you are in the faith; keep proving what you yourselves are. Or do you not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with you? Unless you are disapproved." (2 Corinthians 13:5)

This testing was something done inwardly. We don't have to prove anything to anyone but God and ourselves. God sees who we are when no one else can. We can fool ourselves and others, but we cannot fool him. We can become "disapproved" if we let down our guard and give in to willful and deliberate sin.

Hebrews 4:13...."And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account."

We are not saved until the very end when Jesus passes his judgment. (Matthew 25:31-33; Matthew 25:41)

Those who make the works of the flesh their "practice" will not inherit God's Kingdom. Plain as that.

All baprist churches in texas all community churches most nondenominational churches some Assembly of God and Church Of God and Full Gospel churches

 

[Riders]

And the Baptist churches and Community and Non Denominational churches that claim southern Baptist beliefs are the worst. They try to encourage folks to think they are nott rully saved excerpt from Alter call preaching" Are you really saved? Do you know 100 percent you w ere saved and are still saved?" Uhuh yes this is what i mean.

 

[Deeje]

And the Baptist churches and Community and Non Denominational churches that claim southern Baptist beliefs are the worst. They try to encourage folks to think they are nott rully saved excerpt from Alter call preaching" Are you really saved? Do you know 100 percent you w ere saved and are still saved?" Uhuh yes this is what i mean.

Since the thing we are being saved from is God's anger when he brings this world to an accounting at the judgment, no one can say for sure that they are "saved" until they come through the other side of that judgment.....just like someone that is about to experience an earthquake or a tsunami can't say that they are "saved" until after the event.

We can't "earn" salvation because it is a free gift....but that doesn't mean we don't need to "qualify" for it. It is something we have to work on every day. Our conduct is our choice.

Matthew 24:13....
"...the one who has endured to the end will be saved."

We have to prove faithful to "the end"....it requires "endurance" on our part, like a marathon runner needs endurance and training to finish a race......only then can we be saved.

"Once saved always saved" is nothing but a license to go on sinning. The devil wants people to think that, so that they will miss out on salvation. His traps are baited with things that make being a Christian easy. If its easy, we are on the wrong track. Its a "cramped and narrow road" that leads to life. (Matthew 7:13-14) What do you think "cramped and narrow" means? The easy way leads to destruction.