"One of the Saddest Lessons of History..."

[Sunstone]

I haven't confirmed whether Carl Sagan actually said those words, but even if he did not himself say them, they ring true. Mark Twain was another person who observed that it is far easier to fool a man than it is to convince him that he's been fooled.

Do you think Sagan and Twain are right? Please discuss.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

View attachment 15615

I haven't confirmed whether Carl Sagan actually said those words, but even if he did not himself say them, they ring true. Mark Twain was another person who observed that it is far easier to fool a man than it is to convince him that he's been fooled.

Do you think Sagan and Twain are right? Please discuss.

"It requires a great deal of faith for a man to be cured by his own placebos" ~John L. McClenahan

 

[psychoslice]

Yes I agree with them, and of course religion is up there on the top list.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I think there is something in that. It's always tempting to believe that there is a 'wise wizard' we can all trust, especially if he seems to be on our side. But at it's core, the whole point of science - the method- is that we don't need to merely trust anybody.

But more often than not, the word itself is used to refer to something entirely different; science- the academic/political opinion, which Twain recognized;

"[science] such wholesale returns of conjecture, out of such a trifling investment of fact"

 

[BSM1]

"Holy Stockholm Syndrome, Batman..."

 

[Nietzsche]

Eventually public opinion gets so swayed that no amount of evidence could ever sway.

Hypothetically, if evidence was found proving that any major historical event was manufactured but people were already so strongly opinionated about it it would have no sway with the people.

For example: If evidence were to come forth that North Korea was a Utopia and the world had been lying to us, and it was legitimate *(which it by no means is, this is hypothetical) there would be no large amount of people who would accept the new ideas as legitimate.

You don't need a hypothetical for this. The notion of Jewish slaves in Egypt is an excellent example of this.

 

[psychoslice]

You don't need a hypothetical for this. The notion of Jewish slaves in Egypt is an excellent example of this.

But it just didn't happen.

 

[Nietzsche]

But it just didn't happen.

That's the point I was making, dear.

 

[Neo Deist]

I love Carl Sagan! I am sure @Quetzal has a greater appreciation for him too!

 

[sun rise]

Snopes said Sagan really did say what you quoted 'If It Can Be Destroyed by the Truth' Carl Sagan Quote

 

[Brickjectivity]

If Snopes is actually providing misinformation, then its too late for us to accept that. We've already been putting too much trust in Snopes to stop ourselves.

 

[Kemosloby]

Takes one to know one, and all the fools flock to the bamboozler pointing the finger at the bamboozlers.

 

[ajay0]

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I haven't confirmed whether Carl Sagan actually said those words, but even if he did not himself say them, they ring true. Mark Twain was another person who observed that it is far easier to fool a man than it is to convince him that he's been fooled.

Do you think Sagan and Twain are right? Please discuss.

The so-called charlatan need not be an individual in itself. It can be a well-organized propaganda machinery as well, serving the interests of the corporates, organized religion and government.

 

[Parchment]

Lies!!!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

View attachment 15615

I haven't confirmed whether Carl Sagan actually said those words, but even if he did not himself say them, they ring true. Mark Twain was another person who observed that it is far easier to fool a man than it is to convince him that he's been fooled.

Do you think Sagan and Twain are right? Please discuss.

Any amount of meaningfully examined life experience will quickly reveal the obvious truth of these statements. Just look at all the charlatans and con-artists who pass themselves off as mystics, gurus, spiritual teachers, psychics, mediums, yogis, etc., and the armies of people who blindly believe them - otherwise intelligent people who rationalize endless inconsistencies, lies, irrationalities, and utter nonsense, and who ignore all the painfully obvious signs of liars and con-artists.

Once the human ego chooses a path of irrational belief, it seems largely incapable of even considering that that belief may be incorrect. This seems to be magnified when the focus of the irrational belief is a person or personality - such as some kind of guru, "teacher," or a cult leader/charlatan by any other name.

 

[Revoltingest]

The real saddest lesson from history is that we don't learn from it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

View attachment 15615

I haven't confirmed whether Carl Sagan actually said those words, but even if he did not himself say them, they ring true. Mark Twain was another person who observed that it is far easier to fool a man than it is to convince him that he's been fooled.

Do you think Sagan and Twain are right? Please discuss.

This seems like a discussion on the concept of cognitive dissonance. The discrepancy between beliefs held and evidence presented creates cognitive dissonance, but a rejection of the evidence in favour of the belief is effectively an investment in that belief. Over time, it would become more and more difficult to reject the held belief, since it would similarly be a rejection of self (in terms of the previous rejections of change in favour of said belief).

 

[Twilight Hue]

The real saddest lesson from history is that we don't learn from it.

I think any present generation learn from their mistakes.

Its the generation that hasn't experienced those things upfront and personal that tend to repeat any mistakes that forefathers had made.

Like ww1 and ww2 dosent have the same impact as those who lived through it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think any present generation learn from their mistakes.

Its the generation that hasn't experienced those things upfront and personal that tend to repeat any mistakes that forefathers had made.

Like ww1 and ww2 dosent have the same impact as those who lived through it.

It reminds me of something I heard on NPR the other day.
A young guy was criticizing Trump as a draft evader because he used deferments.
Setting aside the issue that he didn't criticize Obama or Hillary for not having been
soldiers, I scoff at his naivete & hubris. For him, such service was voluntary.
He wouldn't know what it's like to face the time share version of slavery which is
the draft....called to kill & die in a massive & deadly but feckless war half way
around the world on behalf of politicians who didn't care & a populace who largely
hated you.

 

[ShivaFan]

It's an old story. Politician with aspirations of power promises bamboozled "free bread" in return for the bamboozled giving them power over the bamboozled. Then the Kleptocracy is next. The bamboozled only eat old bread with sand in it, the Kleptocrats eat meat and drink wine but since the system doesn't work they end up eating the bamboozled. Things get so bad, the hungry also includes the Kleptos who then get bamboozled by some other mafiosa who promises the Klepto "free bread". The Klepto then loses his or her head to the chopper and the Great Wheel Turns.

Some of the rest of us try to avoid the others, both the bamboozled and the diseased who have the "Klept" lip. Life is too short to waste time with either. They think they have a long time to live. They don't.