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One thing in my way

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
From the end of one of D.L. Moody's sermons:


I remember a few years ago, while the Spirit of God was working in my Church, I closed the meeting one night by asking any that would like to become Christians to rise, and to my great joy, a man arose who had been anxious for some time. I went up to him and took him by the hand and shook it, and said, "I am glad to see you get up. You are coming out for the Lord now in earnest, are you not?"
"Yes," said he, "I think so. That is, there is only one thing in my way."
"What's that?" said 1.
"Well," said he, "I lack moral courage. I confess to you that if such a man [naming a friend of his] had been here tonight I should not have risen. He would laugh at me if he knew of this, and I don't believe I have the courage to tell him."
"But," said I, "You have got to come out boldly for the Lord if you come out at all."
While I talked with him he was trembling from head to foot, and I believe the Spirit was striving earnestly with him. He came back the next night, and the next, and the next; the Spirit of God strove with him for weeks; it seemed as if he came to the very threshold of Heaven, and was almost stepping over into the blessed world. I never could find out any reason for his hesitation, except that he feared his old companions would laugh at him.
At last the Spirit of God seemed to leave him; conviction was gone. Six months from that time I got a message from him that he was sick and wanted to see me. I went to him in great haste. He was very sick, and thought he was dying. He asked me if there was any hope. Yes, I told him, God had sent Christ to save him; and I prayed with him.[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
Contrary to all expectations he recovered. One day I went down to see him. It was a bright, beautiful day, and he was sitting out in front of his house.
"You are coming out for God now, aren't you? You will be well enough soon to come back to our meetings again."[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
"Mr. Moody," said he, "I have made up my mind to become a Christian. My mind is fully made up to that, but I wont't be one just now. I am going to Michigan to buy a farm and settle down, and then I will become a Christian."
"But you don't know yet that you will get well."[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
"O," said he, "I shall be perfectly well in a few days. I have got a new lease of life."
I pleaded with him, and tried every way to get him to take his stand. At last he said, "Mr. Moody, I can't be a Christian in Chicago. When I get away from Chicago, and get to Michigan, away from my friends and acquaintances who laugh at me, I will be ready to go to Christ."
"If God has not Grace enough to save you in Chicago, he has not in Michigan" I answered.
At last he got a little irritated and said, "Mr. Moody, I'll take the risk," and so I left him.
I well remember the day of the week, Thursday, about noon, just one week from that very day, when I was sent for by his wife to come in great haste. I hurried there at once. His poor wife met me at the door, and I asked her what was the matter.
"My husband," she said, "has had a relapse; I have just had a council of physicians here, and they have all given him up to die."[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
"Does he want to see me?" I asked.
"No."
"Then why did you send for me?"
"I cannot bear to see him die in this terrible siate of mind."
"What does he say?" I asked.
"He says his damnation is sealed, and he will be in hell in a little while."
I went in, and he at once fixed his eyes upon me. I called him by name, but he was silent. I went around to the foot of the bed, and looked in his face and said, "Won't you speak to me?", and at last he fixed that terrible deathly look upon me and said:
"Mr. Moody, you need not talk to me any more. It is too late. You can talk to my wife and children; pray for them; but my heart is as hard as the iron in that stove there. My damnation is sealed, and I shall be in hell in a little while."
I tried to tell him of Jesus' love and God's forgiveness, but he said, "Mr. Moody, I tell you there is no hope for me." And as I fell on my knees, he said, "You need not pray for me. My wife will soon be left a widow and my children will be fatherless; they need your prayers, but you need not pray for me."
I tried to pray, but it seemed as if my prayers didn't go higher than my head, and as if Heaven above me was like brass. The next day, his wife told me, he lingered until the sun went down, and from noon until he died all he was heard to say was, "The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and I am not saved." After lingering along for an hour he would say again those awful words, and just as he was expiring his wife noticed his lips quiver, and that he was trying to say something, and as she bent over him she heard him mutter, "The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and I am not saved." He lived a Christless life, he died a Christless death - we wrapped him in a Christless shroud, and bore him away to a Christless grave. Are there some here that are almost persuaded to be Christians? Take my advice and don't let any thing keep you away. Fly to the arms of Jesus this hour. You can be saved if you will.
 

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
It's a heartbreaking account but so common, I havea friend who said to me perhaps one day.
God is not our plaything. the Spirit urges us:

Hebrews 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

2nd Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

TODAY is the key, if you hear his voice call to your heart, do not send HIm away to come back at a more convenient time. GOd is not our plaything for us to summon at our will, He is the Sovereign Lord of the universe and if you hear His voice calling you to Him you had better flee to His arms and surrender all to Him.

It reminds me of silly Felix:

Acts 24:24-25 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

And Agrippa:
Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Almost persuaded by Philip P. Bliss, 1838-1876

"Almost persuaded" now to believe;
"Almost persuaded" Christ to receive;
Seems now some soul to say:
Go, Spirit, go Thy way;
Some more convenient day On Thee I'll call.

"Almost persuaded," come, come today!
"Almost persuaded," turn not away;
Jesus invites you here;
Angels are ling'ring near;
Prayers rise from hearts so dear; O wand'rer, come!

"Almost persuaded": harvest is past!
"Almost persuaded": doom comes at last;
"Almost" cannot avail;
"Almost" is but to fail;
Sad, sad, that bitter wail: "Almost"— but lost!
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
That is so true, people are so controlled by what main stream society depicts,God forbid I take a stand for God ,how will I look ? ,what will they say?.
But when 911 strikes in someones life ,many who are not so proud,will and actually did reach out to God.
It seems that is much the way many in our comfortable, materialistic, indulgent society seem to live.
I will call on God on my terms and conditions as long as God does'nt expect too much.
That is why many seem to form and fashion a god in their minds that caters to one's particular lifestyle and makes God a type of jack in the box.

So my point is that the one thing in a person's way in finding God, is themselves !!
 

ayani

member
i do not feel that the case of this man is sealed. is God's love and mercy truly so limited as in this story? do you guys truly believe that God can not save a man from misery after death because that man's heart is not able or willing to accept a fixed, specific theological assumption, based upon one interpretation regarding the existence of one man 2000 years ago in Palestine? i would say that i can not and do not believe that. i would like to quote a conversation i had with a Muslim friend, regarding a mutual friend of ours who is an atheist:

me: "do you want Aybars to go to hell?"
him: "no! i love this guy!"
me: "so you would not send him to hell?"
him: "no, he is a pain in the *** to me, but i would not send him to hell."
me: "so if you love him enough to not send him to hell, how can you assume that God, who is, to you, the All-Forgiving and the Merciful, would not love him enough to save him from hell? is God's love limited by a creed? are you more capable of love and forgiveness than God?"
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
i do not feel that the case of this man is sealed. is God's love and mercy truly so limited as in this story? do you guys truly believe that God can not save a man from misery after death because that man's heart is not able or willing to accept a fixed, specific theological assumption, based upon one interpretation regarding the existence of one man 2000 years ago in Palestine? i would say that i can not and do not believe that. i would like to quote a conversation i had with a Muslim friend, regarding a mutual friend of ours who is an atheist:

me: "do you want Aybars to go to hell?"
him: "no! i love this guy!"
me: "so you would not send him to hell?"
him: "no, he is a pain in the *** to me, but i would not send him to hell."
me: "so if you love him enough to not send him to hell, how can you assume that God, who is, to you, the All-Forgiving and the Merciful, would not love him enough to save him from hell? is God's love limited by a creed? are you more capable of love and forgiveness than God?"

God's Word is very clear on this. There is no second chance beyond the grave! Nowhere in God's Word does it say we have another chance beyond the grave, that was the common understanding, we are judged for the choices we make in this life now:


Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Luke 16:22-23
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
John 3:16-19
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
 

ayani

member
God's Word is very clear on this. There is no second chance beyond the grave! Nowhere in God's Word does it say we have another chance beyond the grave, that was the common understanding, we are judged for the choices we make in this life now:

but don't you see how terribly this limits the idea of God? it would be like an all-powerful king saying to some children trapped in a burning building "i am sorry- i love you kids very much, but i can not save your lives because there are some peasants here who say that i can't be able to save you!"

where does that leave God's ultimate love and authority? is God limited by the Bible? can He only do what the Bible (or Quran, or...) says He can?

i am reminded of the story of the Good Samaritan. what people fail to realize is how bitterly theologically opposed Jews and Samaritans were. the modern context would be like "the Good Muslim", or "the Good Buddhist". yet the man, by virtue of his creed, was not limited from doing God's will and responding in a righteous way, and Jesus sets him as an example of a righteous man. not the priest or the doctor who believed in the words of the Torah and felt themsleves saved, but the Samaritan, the non-believer who did good, is lifted up. does the story end with the Samaritan accepting mainstream Judaism or becoming a Christian? no! it ends with him being compassionate, selfless, still a Samaritan, and blessed.
 

ayani

member
and could you please answer my question... without quoting the Bible if that's ok, but please in your own words.

is Mahmoud more capable of love and forgiveness than an All-Mighty God, the Ruler of the universe? is Mahmoud a more loving and forgiving being than God Himself? it would seem so, according to his own beliefs, and perhaps to yours. i find that... strange.

that we should be able to love more perfectly and inclusively than God, who would seem to be limited to single interpretation of a text written in a human language.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I don't believe for an instant that that man went to "hell". Not for an instant.

D.L. Moody was a fool, and should have explained to that man that he was loved and saved regardles of his doubts or hesitation.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
but don't you see how terribly this limits the idea of God? it would be like an all-powerful king saying to some children trapped in a burning building "i am sorry- i love you kids very much, but i can not save your lives because there are some peasants here who say that i can't be able to save you!"

where does that leave God's ultimate love and authority? is God limited by the Bible? can He only do what the Bible (or Quran, or...) says He can?

i am reminded of the story of the Good Samaritan. what people fail to realize is how bitterly theologically opposed Jews and Samaritans were. the modern context would be like "the Good Muslim", or "the Good Buddhist". yet the man, by virtue of his creed, was not limited from doing God's will and responding in a righteous way, and Jesus sets him as an example of a righteous man. not the priest or the doctor who believed in the words of the Torah and felt themsleves saved, but the Samaritan, the non-believer who did good, is lifted up. does the story end with the Samaritan accepting mainstream Judaism or becoming a Christian? no! it ends with him being compassionate, selfless, still a Samaritan, and blessed.

It does not limit God. God is also Holy and Just. He is fair and will fairly judge all men. I must take the Bible as authority for the God of the Bible knew the future and foretold specific events in detail and they occurred, hundreds of prophecies that came true. God will not let evil go unchecked, I am not talking about good people who are earnestly searching for the truth, God is fair, but I assure you no practicing pedophile, rapist, murderer, thief, liar or any other wicked creature will be in Heaven.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
and could you please answer my question... without quoting the Bible if that's ok, but please in your own words.

is Mahmoud more capable of love and forgiveness than an All-Mighty God, the Ruler of the universe? is Mahmoud a more loving and forgiving being than God Himself? it would seem so, according to his own beliefs, and perhaps to yours. i find that... strange.

that we should be able to love more perfectly and inclusively than God, who would seem to be limited to single interpretation of a text written in a human language.

I know God is love and God is just, and pardon my ignorance, but who is Mahmoud?
Yes, again, the Bible is the only authority I find completely trustworthy.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
I don't believe for an instant that that man went to "hell". Not for an instant.

D.L. Moody was a fool, and should have explained to that man that he was loved and saved regardles of his doubts or hesitation.

For that man's sake I wish you were right. There are many who disagree with you about Moody, but that is your opinion. Moody did his best to lead people into a saving relationship with Jesus who said no man comes to the Father but by me, that He that believes in me has eternal life and he that does not believe is condemned already. I am afraid that instead of accepting Jesus free payment for his sins, that man is paying for his own sins in Hell. I am quite certain of it, actually.
 

ayani

member
joeboonda said:
I know God is love and God is just, and pardon my ignorance, but who is Mahmoud?

oh, Mahmoud is the guy i was having the conversation with.

Yes, again, the Bible is the only authority I find completely trustworthy.

moreso than your God-given capabilities for compassion and mercy? i don't know... it seems if you can desire to save this man from hell, surely God can desire it, and can do it. why would He be limited by such specific circumstances?
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
oh, Mahmoud is the guy i was having the conversation with.



moreso than your God-given capabilities for compassion and mercy? i don't know... it seems if you can desire to save this man from hell, surely God can desire it, and can do it. why would He be limited by such specific circumstances?


Jesus said that whoever believes in, trusts in Him has everlasting life, but those who do not believe are condemned already, they must pay for their sins themselves. God certainly can save anyone from Hell but they must come to Him and place their trust in Jesus. Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by Him. This man would not trust Christ for he was afraid of what others would think. To be saved the Bible says we must believe in our hearts AND confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus. If we do not confess Him before men, He will not confess us before the Father. This man did not accept Jesus as his Saviour and died in his sins, that is all there is to it, its all about what we do with Jesus for He alone paid for our allsins on the cross, He alone can save us and if we choose not to place our trust in Him for whatever reason, we must pay for our own sins.
 

ayani

member
joeboonda- so essentially, God is limited by your specific interpretation of Christian theology? and that He can not ever move beyond the confines of what this theology dictates He can or can't do?

truly, that seems to be what you are saying. that God is limited by the Bible and by theology / apologetics. how is this compatable with the idea of God as One, All-Mighty and beyond any idea we can make of Him?
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
joeboonda- so essentially, God is limited by your specific interpretation of Christian theology? and that He can not ever move beyond the confines of what this theology dictates He can or can't do?

truly, that seems to be what you are saying. that God is limited by the Bible and by theology / apologetics. how is this compatable with the idea of God as One, All-Mighty and beyond any idea we can make of Him?

Gracie,I have been following your conversation and if I may,I would like to respond.
God is not limited by mine or anyone's perceptions ,or understanding of scripture or even my particular theology, but He is limited by one thing, and this is heavy Gracie.
God is limited by our choice to believe him,his word and his Son ,not to mention those who declare the word in truth.
When we believe, we open our hearts up to receive His love and revelation of himself through His Spirit and when that happens ,what you initially believed becomes an overwhelming assurance deep within,it's so much more then mere intellectual ascent

God says 2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
God is always calling us ,he is so patient and merciful waiting for us to turn to him,but we think we are so self suffcient and have no need of him.
Pride,ususally is the root of this.
I think many don't want to recognise or come to God for one very important reason,that is if they acknowledge there is a God ,than they must also acknowledge that their is a standard He requires.
Much like why you won't find a criminal hanging around the police station,why ,well ,he's guilty,he's at afraid of being caught because he will lose his freedoms to indulge in his lifestyle.
It's not that people can't believe ,it's that they won't.
This principal is no different with God ,many people think if we ignore ,refute,make up all kinds of reasons as to why God does not exist and the bible is fallible ,than it justifies the lifestyle to indulge in sin.
Through this all, God is still patient ,unlike man's patience and He is not willing to let anyone perish,but we all have a day we will die and that day will be the end of our ability to chose.

But when tradgedy or chaos strikes as in 911,people cry out to this God that they never needed before,this always aroused curiousity when this happened
But he also says: Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Gracie,Why are men hardened in their heart towards God,because they do not receive his son ,which is the gift of eternal life.Basically we sinned and he paid the debt for it with his own life,the most precious commodity in this world,is blood,blood in the is that which sustains life,the bible says it and so do scientists.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Eternal life lies in this one decision, believe or not, that Jesus is the Son of God and He will reveal himself to you when you believe,that means to trust and rely and have confidence in him as the redeeming sacrifice.
God was looking for a perfect sacrifice and Jesus was that and all who trust him have that righteousness that God will accept when we leave this temporal world
Jhn 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jhn 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The question than remains ,"do you beleieve"?
 

Carol wis

Member
Jesus said that whoever believes in, trusts in Him has everlasting life, but those who do not believe are condemned already, they must pay for their sins themselves. God certainly can save anyone from Hell but they must come to Him and place their trust in Jesus. Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by Him. This man would not trust Christ for he was afraid of what others would think. To be saved the Bible says we must believe in our hearts AND confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus. If we do not confess Him before men, He will not confess us before the Father. This man did not accept Jesus as his Saviour and died in his sins, that is all there is to it, its all about what we do with Jesus for He alone paid for our allsins on the cross, He alone can save us and if we choose not to place our trust in Him for whatever reason, we must pay for our own sins.
Hi joeboonda, I too have been reading along , everything you quote here is correct, but, sorry, I'm in agreement with Ayani. Gods' Mercy and Love are beyond our comprehension, I believe that's why we're not suppose to judge each other, no matter what the sin. You did everything in your power to guide this man. But isn't Gods Mercy greater? You had this man speak to you with his thoughts and worries. I think God knows his soul better than we even do. (REV2:23) "I Am the seacher of all hearts"We shouldn't be judging on by the way things look to us. God knows our frailties. You heard them yourself in this man before he died, Who knows what his conversation with Jesus was before death, this could have been quite different than the one you heard, and you were never aware of this, I hope you find peace Carol wis
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
How petty you all make God seem. It is like those Jack Chick tracts. The people beg for God's forgiveness, but He is a ba*tard and sends them to hell anyway. It amazes me how easily people call evil, good.

I experience the reverse of this story. I am an Atheist and am afraid of what my Christian family would say if they figure out I am a non-believer, not to mention a Luciferian.
 
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