Of course not. I just get confused as to where and if discussion and debate overlap, and where they're separate. We wouldn't want to upset the mods.
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Online Reference: Selected Sites Denying the Theory of Evolution
- Thread starter ttechsan
- Start date
Jeez, YT. You're asking for a whole textbook; probably several textbooks!
We see evolution. We see speciation and change, both in form and in DNA. We can observe the various mechanisms in action. We can watch it happen. We've been selectively breeding plants and animals for millennia, using the same methods nature does, but more efficiently. What we see in nature corresponds exactly to what you'd expect, given the known mechanisms.
Can you ask something more specific, maybe?
AdamjEdgar
Active Member
can you provide an example of speciation (completely new species) here as I'm not aware of any and would like to see one please?
For example...a mamal breeding with a bird or perhaps a reptile and producing fertile offspring!
Wikipedia states...Hybrids should not be confused with genetic chimeras, such as that between sheep and goat known as the geep. Wider interspecific hybrids can be made via in vitro fertilization or somatic hybridization, however the resulting cells are not able to develop into a full organism
The examples you gave are not really in conflict with YEC beliefs and scientific claims...they are not new evolutionary species.
Maybe your species and mine mean different things?
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, you have a flawed definition of what a new species is. You are demanding to see something that would refute the theory of evolution. There is no such thing as a "completely new species". There is no " change of kind" in evolution. You are still an ape because your ancestors never stopped being apes.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Genetic change does not mean evolution. Racial characteristics of humans does not equate to Darwinian evolution. It equates to variances within the human race. Gorillas remain gorillas. Etc. There is not "testable" proof that gorillas evolved from a common ancestral ape.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So that makes it testable? I mean you know more... (don't you?)
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So because this fossil is purported to have an erect structure it means she eventually evolved to ...or was...a type of human?Just google australopithicenes, or Australopithicus afarensis for Lucy's specific species.
Lucy walked fully upright like we do, her body was very small and looked much like ours, but with shorter legs. Her head, though, was quite different.
Apparently big brains weren't as important to survival as our erect stance and bipedal gait were, inasmuch as our familiar head shape is a recent development.
Lucy's >3M years old, and completely fossilized. No DNA's been recovered.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Ha I like that about brains. Big brains just weren't as important you say for 'Lucy."Just google australopithicenes, or Australopithicus afarensis for Lucy's specific species.
Lucy walked fully upright like we do, her body was very small and looked much like ours, but with shorter legs. Her head, though, was quite different.
Apparently big brains weren't as important to survival as our erect stance and bipedal gait were, inasmuch as our familiar head shape is a recent development.
Lucy's >3M years old, and completely fossilized. No DNA's been recovered.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes. An example is a Precambrian Bunny Rabbit. Finding an animal severely out of order would show that all of our thinking in that regard was wrong. And it could happen , but it never has. There are other ways that it could be tested as well, but that is the classic.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Please, not "purported". She has been shown to be bipedal. Her body tells us that several ways. She walked upright. And how do you define "human"? Her line, or one very close to it , were our ancestors.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Actually by definition genetic change does mean evolution:
"Evolution is often defined as a change in allele frequencies within a population."
Evolution is often defined as a change in allele frequencies within a population. - Understanding Evolution
And yes, there is testable evidence. Why make such an utterly ignorant claim? How would you support it?
There is testable evidence for species change.
Evolution is change, and change, in an organism, is programmed by its genes.
Small changes or large. racial tweaks or new species; it's only a matter of degree, not mechanism.
Genetic change, from reproductive variation or mutation, happens all the time. Beneficial changes are retained, harmful ones deleted. The process doesn't stop to avoid too much change. It just keeps going and accumulating changes. Get enough of these genetic changes and you're going to get entirely new organisms.
And what is Darwinian evolution?
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Depends how you define 'human'. She was a hominid, but probably not a direct ancestor of us -- with the possible exception of Revoltingest.
There's more to it than an erect gait. Her skeleton was clearly hominid.
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In all the millions of animals that have existed over the ages, including the apes, no brains capable of the abstractions we're capable of.
Human level intelligence is not necessary for an organism to thrive, nor does it appear to be a particularly beneficial, inasmuch as shortly after it appeared we're on the verge of wiping ourselves out and taking the ecosystem with us.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Human theisms first are only stories.
Told by a humans ownership life mind body human.
Conscious by exact living conditions once was taught as first position. The human.
As humans intelligence.
Basic human advice mutual life equal and life oxygenated in a water living atmosphere.
We live. We die. Origin human life by terms wasn't ours. We are all human babies born by sex.
First position. Your life owned conscious is by humans sexual procreation. Exact.
A human baby body cells is in fact the creator of a formed human adult. Exact.
If you don't drink eat you die early. Exact.
You die the adult. Many years in the same heavenly body cells of pre living body decompose. Bones become hard. Disintegrated into dusts. Exact.
Is how long a living then deceased biology takes until it's completely ended. Leaving a substance at its end. Exact. Dusts.
Before the Human adult in our living conscuous life is only a Human baby.
Theorising is therefore a moot choice.
However money and prizes as behaviours of humans says give me Information by your thinking. Isn't any truth. It's human behaviour only.
Therefore as a human thinker I can produce a story like anyone else that claims how and why we were a pre owned spirit body before the human form. As conscious aware the creator.
In self living use our consciousness.
I can explain that yes a body of substance not converted first exists with beings existing within it. That had always existed. It's a story. Eternal.
Theism is first only a story used.
I can claim advice how the beings held in eternal fixed a position O change to observe. How change came about inside their body.
As why it fell as O the fixed position into a space hole by burning.
To substantiate pre existence. Change to pre existence. An introduced law burning consuming and gained emptiness to stop burning. Space itself.
No body mass as pre existence in the cause Of a hole. Space. Cooled held bodies changed as it's origin mass.
Not in any of that advice is a human life mind or thought existing.
I can then say when the greater sun O mass re exploded whilst cooling it changed planet earths owned natural evolution history.
O bodies exploding scatter mass.
And how density bulged in earths heavens as filled in space...pushing onto the eternal type still existing not in created creation.
To force the spirit types to cross into density heavens to begin life at grounds mass as pre beings. Whose life body began converting. Became biology still in transition.
Converting of our eternal life ends as dusts. Just as God earths body had.
Proving we had in fact been released from the exact same place.
Yet unlike the gods O aren't mass. Experience consciousness in a changed spirit aware body. Because Eternal is real.
No humans theism evolution or creationism is real. It's only stories first.
As pre humans consciousness is false as the life mind body that identifies information.
Healing of bio body re inheriting what was removed previously is evolution.. by cooling amassing heavens body terms.
To tell stories first.
Told by a humans ownership life mind body human.
Conscious by exact living conditions once was taught as first position. The human.
As humans intelligence.
Basic human advice mutual life equal and life oxygenated in a water living atmosphere.
We live. We die. Origin human life by terms wasn't ours. We are all human babies born by sex.
First position. Your life owned conscious is by humans sexual procreation. Exact.
A human baby body cells is in fact the creator of a formed human adult. Exact.
If you don't drink eat you die early. Exact.
You die the adult. Many years in the same heavenly body cells of pre living body decompose. Bones become hard. Disintegrated into dusts. Exact.
Is how long a living then deceased biology takes until it's completely ended. Leaving a substance at its end. Exact. Dusts.
Before the Human adult in our living conscuous life is only a Human baby.
Theorising is therefore a moot choice.
However money and prizes as behaviours of humans says give me Information by your thinking. Isn't any truth. It's human behaviour only.
Therefore as a human thinker I can produce a story like anyone else that claims how and why we were a pre owned spirit body before the human form. As conscious aware the creator.
In self living use our consciousness.
I can explain that yes a body of substance not converted first exists with beings existing within it. That had always existed. It's a story. Eternal.
Theism is first only a story used.
I can claim advice how the beings held in eternal fixed a position O change to observe. How change came about inside their body.
As why it fell as O the fixed position into a space hole by burning.
To substantiate pre existence. Change to pre existence. An introduced law burning consuming and gained emptiness to stop burning. Space itself.
No body mass as pre existence in the cause Of a hole. Space. Cooled held bodies changed as it's origin mass.
Not in any of that advice is a human life mind or thought existing.
I can then say when the greater sun O mass re exploded whilst cooling it changed planet earths owned natural evolution history.
O bodies exploding scatter mass.
And how density bulged in earths heavens as filled in space...pushing onto the eternal type still existing not in created creation.
To force the spirit types to cross into density heavens to begin life at grounds mass as pre beings. Whose life body began converting. Became biology still in transition.
Converting of our eternal life ends as dusts. Just as God earths body had.
Proving we had in fact been released from the exact same place.
Yet unlike the gods O aren't mass. Experience consciousness in a changed spirit aware body. Because Eternal is real.
No humans theism evolution or creationism is real. It's only stories first.
As pre humans consciousness is false as the life mind body that identifies information.
Healing of bio body re inheriting what was removed previously is evolution.. by cooling amassing heavens body terms.
To tell stories first.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, one has to remember that the odds of finding the fossils of any species is rather low. Our ancestors could have been a species that was smaller in number or lived in a damper environment. Where a species lives can be more important than their number when it comes to fossilization. The forests are generally too moist. We have fewer fossils for those on the chimpanzee side of the split than we have of those on the human side of the split.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I agree that if not checked, humans will render the earth uninhabitable for humans. Do you know the Bible says that?In all the millions of animals that have existed over the ages, including the apes, no brains capable of the abstractions we're capable of.
Human level intelligence is not necessary for an organism to thrive, nor does it appear to be a particularly beneficial, inasmuch as shortly after it appeared we're on the verge of wiping ourselves out and taking the ecosystem with us.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
"completely new species"?
This tells me you don't really understand what speciation is.
Speciation does not result in a "completely new species".
It results in subspecies.
They aren't "completely new".
For example, dogs are subspecies of wolves. They are not "completely new".
A subspecies will have a lot more in common then differences compared to its parent species.
Google "observed speciation".
Not what speciation is.
And an example so bizar that it seems you have no clue about basic biology either.
One thing is for sure: what you think "speciation" is, does not occur in nature.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
DNA demonstrates that gorilla's and humans, and the other great apes, all share a common ancestor.
And "gorillas remain gorrilas"? Seriously?
How many times have you tried to use that flawed argument and how many times have I corrected you?
I lost count.
Why do you keep repeating falsehoods while knowing they are falsehoods?
I know you know they are falsehoods because plenty of people informed you of such already. More times then I can count. I was one of them.
It's like you insist on being wrong.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Yes, that makes it testable.
The same principle makes it testable if your sibling is your biological sibling.