Only atheists

[interminable]

Argument from ignorance, shifting burden of proof and false dilemma. The inability to show any idea is wrong does not automatically mean the idea is right. You shift the burden of proof on to others rather than support the primary claim about the Quran It is false dilemma as the all truth claims in the Quran solely creating better poetry. Allah has fallacious reasoning.

Haven't u forgotten our previous discussions??

 

[Shad]

Haven't u forgotten our previous discussions??

No. I am still waiting for your to learn basic argumentation and logic...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do I need to show??
My logical arguments don't need to show how things are created

Your argument only applies to things that are created. To decide whether an argument applies to a specific thing, you would need to be able to say whether that thing was created.

Besides if something sometimes wasn't and then was it shows it's created

I know a few definitions for "created." All of them imply some sort of cause.

If all you're saying is that everything that was caused was caused, then you haven't told us anything.

 

[YmirGF]

If all you're saying is that everything that was caused was caused, then you haven't told us anything.

It is somewhat like saying water is wet because it's wet.

 

[interminable]

No. I am still waiting for your to learn basic argumentation and logic...

I told u
We claim god exist and the evidence is the Qur'an
We didn't say god exist and u should prove that he doesn't exist


We prepared an evidence that u can't destroy it. Is it my problem or yours?

If a doctor says I'm the most talented and says u should reject it U can say he is mad
But when he claims that and brings overwhelming evidences on his talent U should bring some evidence so as to destroy his evidence

Am I clear????

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Because it's a miracle itself and says bring 3 verses like me but Noone could do that and our prophet had lots of miracles that are recorded

Now I have trouble taking you seriously. With every exchange, your claims get wider and bolder, until it's all mixed together with claims that suggest a collection of rambling text is somehow beyond reproach, suggesting that using the medium of poetry is supposed to have additional explanatory power, and how some hastorical warlord is supposed to have performed miracles.

All this to explain why you aren't afraid of death.

You don't know any of this for yourself, and anyone who wasn't raised to believe it finds it to be a garbage argument from authority.

Give me a real argument based on things that you actually know, stop appealing to authority, and throw out the garbage.

 

[Shad]

I told u
We claim god exist and the evidence is the Qur'an

So? Your evidence is not convincing

[We didn't say god exist and u should prove that he doesn't exist

No you claimed that to show the Quran is from God I must show it isn't. This is an argument from ignorance. X is true as X has not be shown to be false. It also shifts the burden of proof away from yourself and supporting your own claim to other people, nothing more

We prepared an evidence that u can't destroy it.

Assertion

Is it my problem or yours?

False dilemma based on the previous assertion

[If a doctor says I'm the most talented and says u should reject it U can say he is mad

Argument from authority and an assertion. A single doctors claiming anything does not make it true. What are the justifications for this statement?

But when he claims that and brings overwhelming evidences on his talent U should bring some evidence so as to destroy his evidence

You have yet to bring evidence. All I see is more fallacious reasoning and dodges.

Am I clear????

Yes you clearly are dodging the point and using more fallacious reasons to support previous fallacious reasoning.

You have yet to even stay on my points. Stay focused.....

 

[interminable]

It is somewhat like saying water is wet because it's wet.

Your argument only applies to things that are created. To decide whether an argument applies to a specific thing, you would need to be able to say whether that thing was created.


I know a few definitions for "created." All of them imply some sort of cause.

If all you're saying is that everything that was caused was caused, then you haven't told us anything.

I didn't say that
U always focus on some parts of my claims and in other times on some other parts
When we proved everything that is created needs a cause we will face a chain of possible existents

U have 2 options
1. All of them are possible existents which we say infinite regress is impossible

2. Some of them should be necessary and some are possible existents

In this case u proved my claim that there is something that is necessary and isn't created by anything else

Clear??????

 

[YmirGF]

We prepared an evidence that u can't destroy it. Is it my problem or yours?

Are you meaning that your so-called "evidence" is the silly Qur'an challenge (to bring 3 verses)?

If so, I can't quite understand why so many Muslims think that this is a genuine and meaningful challenge. The mind reels...

 

[interminable]

Are you meaning that your so-called "evidence" is the silly Qur'an challenge (to bring 3 verses)?

If so, I can't quite understand why so many Muslims think that this is a genuine and meaningful challenge. The mind reels...

It's clear because everybody can speak and write

Instead of all these arguments wasn't better to bring some verses like the Qur'an and make me atheist too?

 

[YmirGF]

I didn't say that
U always focus on some parts of my claims and in other times on some other parts

That's probably because you don't express yourself very well in English. You have borderline proficiency.

When we proved everything that is created needs a cause we will face a chain of possible existents

I will agree that everything that is created has a cause. The thing is we have no evidence that "everything" was "created" and simply did not form of its own accord. That is a pretty huge difference.

U have 2 options
1. All of them are possible existents which we say infinite regress is impossible

But those who argue against infinite regress have never won the battle of logic. It's a stale mate. You simply cannot prove that infinite regress is not involved.

2. Some of them should be necessary and some are possible existents

I don't really understand what you are trying to say here.

In this case u proved my claim that there is something that is necessary and isn't created by anything else

Even if this is true it does not mean such a cause was god.

Clear??????

Not really, but you seem to think so.

 

[YmirGF]

It's clear because everybody can speak and write

Instead of all these arguments wasn't better to bring some verses like the Qur'an and make me atheists too?

Hehe. But part of the problem here is that you think the challenge is fair and valid. I don't see it as either. It's rigged and inherently unfair. Besides, isn't one copy of the Qur'an enough to saddle mankind with? Do we really need to create another dreary tomb to take its place?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Did I say something about Allah or god in those arguments

First reject them and step by step I will prove other arguments

Because, being a Muslim, why else would you engage in these kind of debates other than for shameless promotion of your own beliefs? For instance I can't see you arguing about the existence of a Creator in order to wind up with the conclusion that 'the Universe spontaneously arose from Chaos'. If there's a Creator it'll inevitably have to be your god and nobody else's because what other gods could you possibly accept as existing?

 

[YmirGF]

Because, being a Muslim, why else would you engage in these kind of debates other than for shameless promotion of your own beliefs? For instance I can't see you arguing about the existence of a Creator in order to wind up with the conclusion that 'the Universe spontaneously arose from Chaos'. If there's a Creator it'll inevitably have to be your god and nobody else's because what other gods could you possibly accept as existing?

It's really thinly veiled proselytizing.

 

[Koldo]

U wanna say it existed but was hidden that's possible
But something that has a beginning can't jumped to existence by itself because when it didn't exist how could a non existent comes to be existed

Why not ? Explain to me why that can't happen.

 

[interminable]

Why not ? Explain to me why that can't happen.

Let's all that thing A
OK??

 

[Koldo]

Let's all that thing A
OK??

I don't understand what you mean by this.
Can you rephrase your post?

 

[interminable]

I don't understand what you mean by this.
Can you rephrase your post?

Sorry
Let's call that A

 

[Koldo]

Sorry
Let's call that A

Call what 'A'?
Something that pops into existence ?

 

[interminable]

Call what 'A'?
Something that pops into existence ?

Yes