Only my god is superior!

[Poeticus]

No, I'm not with you. I don't want to burn the scriptures

Hold your horses. It was sarcasm.

But I need to know/am curious to know the benefit of procedures such as pancha samskara or VeeraShaivism, Lingayat, etc.

This is surely the wrong thread since SamskArA-s don't have a lot to do with which Shri God is superior nor Bhaktic Yoga. Just my two cents, Viraja.

 

[KrsnaDasa]

Shankara's philosophy is indeed contradictory. However, like other Vedanta scholars he (1) identifies brahman with nArAyaNa and (2) accepts the supremacy of brahman over the other deva-s. He cannot get away from that, because those views are very straightforward from shAstra. That being said, he tries to argue that the difference is valid at the "vyavahArika" level of perception while the non-difference is understood at the "paramArthika" level. Other vedAntist-s, like Ramanuja, accept the existence of brahman as the innermost paramAtmA of all jIvAtmA-s, including the jIvAtmA-s who happen to have the posts of devas. Thus, by the principle of coordinate predication, brahman can be referred to by the names of dependent, ensouled entities, i.e. devas are brahman, universe is brahman, and so on. This refers to His immanence in the dependent entities, not in their equivalence. The equivalence of brahman with devas or jagat cannot be maintained on shAstric grounds, because many shruti pramANa-s state that brahman is transcendental to all of this. Adi Shankara knew this also, which is why he had to accept this idea in his philosophy.

It's only the modern Neo-Advaitins who try to argue that everything is same. This non-vedic philosophy is a modern development on Adi-Shankara's views but does not in fact represent his actual views.

Im out, no offense to Advaitins, but Advaita arguments always turn into word jugglery.

 

[Viraja]

Thanks to everyone, but I do not really wish this conversation to proceed. No offence meant, but I think I will listen to a qualified acharya on this matter before making the move of being initiated into SriVaishnava order by taking the samasrayana procedure. :namaste

 

[Viraja]

Viraja, that's the best thing anyone can do. In fact, you should have asked a highly qualified Guru/Acharya before making this thread. It would have been much better to hear about the statements your Guru could have made. I will await to hear His thoughts. All the best to you. And, thank you once again for providing an insight on how Bhaktic Yogists view veneration. It was a treat! All the best.

Thank you very much, MV ji!

Warm regards,

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram viraja ji :namaste

Thanks to everyone, but I do not really wish this conversation to proceed. No offence meant, but I think I will listen to a qualified acharya on this matter before making the move of being initiated into SriVaishnava order by taking the samasrayana procedure. :namaste

this is a wise decision we should treat our guru or acharya as the one capable to prescribe the correct practice for us , .... but I do not think that we should mistake that instruction that is prescribed for us as individuals to be an instruction in general for everyone . there is no need for anyone to assert the supremacy of one practice above another or ones god or gods above those of another tradition .

personaly I would not go as far as to refuse the prasad , blesings or darshan of anothers divinity , but I can understand how these beleifs have come about ,
go back many hundreds of years and each of us would be born into a tradition and would maintain that tradition as it would have been our dharma to do so , our 'prescribed duty' by dint of birth .
but now the world has changed no longer do most people stay in the village of their birth , no longer do people continue in ones familys tradition with a ridgid set of family and cultural ties , ..... this world has changed , we now need to be very wise in making the correct decisions as to what to continue and where we can bring in new flexability , we must realise that whatever we bring in to our traditions from outside only serves to confuse and weaken any one tradition .
so if ones guru or acharya says dont do something we need to seek to understand his reasoning .
it is not because that other tradition is wrong or inferior it is simply to focus our practice in one place , it is to strenghten our sadhana .

because of my buddhist background I came to vaisnavism with the previous blessing of budhist teachings and realisations , I can no more forget any true realisation than I can undo my age , gender or birth yet it is not wise for me to continualy site buddhist instructions as it would simply confuse most hindus yet I can and do use the occasional comparison when it is realy nececary , as what buddha taught was in responce to a different age and different circumstances .

however once our temple president decided to take it upon himself to tell me that now I an in this tradition I can forget all about buddha as krsna is vastly superior ...to be truthfull I simply smiled and remained silent , How can I ever forget that which has given me great benifit ? ...it would be like a child forgetting the kindness of its mother .
the thing for me that canot be denied is that without my previous buddhist understanding I would not have understood the sadhana I now keep so well , but never would I try to mix the two this would be inapropriate .

 

[chinu]

Some of us tend to think that the god we pray to is only superior, in the sense, has greater yogic power, has greater 'shakti' or prowess, is more benevolent, and thus the only one worthy of praise.

One cannot say directly "Only am superior" because that sounds too much egoistic. Thus.. by taking the shelter of God's name one says "Only my God is superior"

Well, that's the one only reason behind all this, I think.

 

[Viraja]

namaskaram viraja ji :namaste



this is a wise decision we should treat our guru or acharya as the one capable to prescribe the correct practice for us , .... but I do not think that we should mistake that instruction that is prescribed for us as individuals to be an instruction in general for everyone . there is no need for anyone to assert the supremacy of one practice above another or ones god or gods above those of another tradition .

personaly I would not go as far as to refuse the prasad , blesings or darshan of anothers divinity , but I can understand how these beleifs have come about ,
go back many hundreds of years and each of us would be born into a tradition and would maintain that tradition as it would have been our dharma to do so , our 'prescribed duty' by dint of birth .
but now the world has changed no longer do most people stay in the village of their birth , no longer do people continue in ones familys tradition with a ridgid set of family and cultural ties , ..... this world has changed , we now need to be very wise in making the correct decisions as to what to continue and where we can bring in new flexability , we must realise that whatever we bring in to our traditions from outside only serves to confuse and weaken any one tradition .
so if ones guru or acharya says dont do something we need to seek to understand his reasoning .
it is not because that other tradition is wrong or inferior it is simply to focus our practice in one place , it is to strenghten our sadhana .

because of my buddhist background I came to vaisnavism with the previous blessing of budhist teachings and realisations , I can no more forget any true realisation than I can undo my age , gender or birth yet it is not wise for me to continualy site buddhist instructions as it would simply confuse most hindus yet I can and do use the occasional comparison when it is realy nececary , as what buddha taught was in responce to a different age and different circumstances .

however once our temple president decided to take it upon himself to tell me that now I an in this tradition I can forget all about buddha as krsna is vastly superior ...to be truthfull I simply smiled and remained silent , How can I ever forget that which has given me great benifit ? ...it would be like a child forgetting the kindness of its mother .
the thing for me that canot be denied is that without my previous buddhist understanding I would not have understood the sadhana I now keep so well , but never would I try to mix the two this would be inapropriate .

Great advice, Ratikala ji!

We have real Iyengar temple priests at our local Sri Lakshmi Temple, Ashland, MA. I would have to approach and ask them for the initiation procedure. Guess what they will say? They've been helping around (if not doing actual puja) for Shaiva festivals too, so my bet is that they are never going to say I cannot have darshan of other deities besides Iyengar ones... This is my gut feeling about it. I visited Shri Ram Mandir in Pennsylvania recently, beneath Sri Rama idol, Ganapathi and Shiva linga are there! And there is only 1 Iyengar priest. So I guess he does Ganapathi and Shiva puja on appropriate festivals too. So I believe the Vaishnava priest at our local temple is going to say exactly what you are saying.

(Oh the temple president had been mean... Some people like to impose their views on others, I think each individual has a choice to experience god as per their prarabdha... my late grandmother had been a Shakta, my mother is a SaiBaba devotee, and only me in my family follows Iyengar tradition, but we are in 'mutual harmony' with each other, if you know what I mean... )

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

From the perspective of Bhakti Yoga, the greatest offense is to disparage a pure devotee. A pure devotee is par with Divine.

Even the Deva or Devi can be a pure devotee.

Therefore in the World, with arms raised to the sky, inviting others to join you in praise, worship, devotion, bhajan and chanting of the holy name of your Lord, or ringing the puja or temple bell, or with the Vedic priest on your behalf, then praise the glory of your Lord to the World.

Be very careful not to waste your time disparaging another Lord, for that One may be a pure devotee. Otherwise you have commited the greatest of offenses.

What is discussed between your Guru and yourself, that is for you. Somethings are only between you and your Teacher, for you and not the World.

I am a Saiva. I might say, oh Siva is the Supreme, yet I know that Lord Shiva begged alms from Mother Annapurna. I will praise Shiva to the world. I will not disparage Others.

Today I think of Mother Annapurna, She is the Queen of Kashi the City Never Foresaken by Shiva. All the Gods have come to Kashi, but Lord Kala Bhairava is the kotwal of Kashi Who will not let Lord Yamaraj enter if He comes to take away a soul. When Siva shook at the beauty of Visnu, His earring fell. That earring I worship. It is in Kashi. I wish this moment to be in Kashi, where all the Gods have come together to be One.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Omkara]

yo naḥ pitā janitā yo vidhātā dhāmāni veda bhuvanāniviśvā |
yo devānāṃ nāmadhā eka eva taṃ sampraśnambhuvanā yantyanyā || RV 10.82.3 ||

"Father who made us, He who, as Disposer, knoweth all races and all things existing, Even He alone, the Deities' name-giver, Him other beings seek for information."

This is, I presume, Griffith's translation. Vedantic commentators such as Madhvacharya ans Sayanacharya have intetpreted the underlined section as 'he who bears the names of all the devas', which I think is more consistent with the purport of the vedas and the point you are making.

 

[Viraja]

Therefore in the World, with arms raised to the sky, inviting others to join you in praise, worship, devotion, bhajan and chanting of the holy name of your Lord, or ringing the puja or temple bell, or with the Vedic priest on your behalf, then praise the glory of your Lord to the World.

Be very careful not to waste your time disparaging another Lord, for that One may be a pure devotee. Otherwise you have commited the greatest of offenses.

Namaste ShivaFan ji,

Golden words spoken. You have time and again proven with your words, that you are a purest and truest devotee of Lord Sadashiva. (Being about 15 yrs younger to you) I truly touch your feet in reverence. :namaste

Pranam.

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

I can notice some are trying to introduce their particular devotion, in this case to Narayana, which is being equated with Vishnu of the Rig Veda, as the supreme through some quote from the Aitareya Brahmana, thus violating the spirit of the OP and this thread and turning it into a wasteland of "my God or my Brahman is superior to your God or your Brahman" and endless cut-paste of this or that scripture or quoting some commentator which represents one sect but not the entire body of Hinduism.

In regards to the Rig Veda, MV is correct the Vedas are foundational, Indra is there but sadly forgotten, and I notice the Vishnu of the Rig Veda is not Narayana but is Suryanarayana, the Rig Vedic Deity referred to as Vishnu is the Sun God. The Gayatri Mantra is also related to Savitri or Sun-Savitrian in Vastness, but this does not matter, 33 are equal in the kathenotheistic Rigveda, each One for a time is supreme in hymn and in mind of the devotee.

There is no need to turn the spirit of the OP's thread into some endless waste of time as to who is supreme.

Jai Indra.
Jai Rudra.
Jai Vishnu.
Jai Brahman.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Debater Slayer]

***Mod Post***

Thread closed for staff review.
​

 

[Quagmire]

***Mod Post***

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Thread Re-opened.​

 

[Silver Wolf]

I heard some claim that the devas (Brahma, Indra, Agni, etc.) were impermanent and when they died, new devas replaced them. Not sure if that is only Vashnaiva. Is there any bhakti for Indra or Agni, just wondering?