Sounds like regulation rather than ban, then? Presumably to protect those too young?
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OnlyFans - yay or nay?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
Sounds like regulation rather than ban, then? Presumably to protect those too young?
I don't see how you can ban porn. We can't even ban graphic murder and suicide vids, which are all over the Internet.
Well, it seems problematic to say “it will happen anyway, no need to ban it.” Fistfights happen everyday too, and that’s assault.
I’m just curious if you’d use the force of law to ban it if you could, or if you’re content to not like it and not engage in it yourself?
I think regulating to protect young people is a noble idea.
I would destroy the porn industry if I could. What adults choose to share between themselves in private is their business. Banning the sale of it, basically.
Ok.
I mean, to be fair, so would I: but only to put something in place with a different accepted business model that doesn’t exploit voluntary actors/actresses like the current industry does. Different goals there.
I voted the third choice, but I wouldn't call myself neutral. I just don't care.
Well, since it's called "Only Fans," if you're not a fan you have no need to care about it, or to visit. And if you are not a fan, but DO visit, then we can only suspect that's because of your own prurient interest -- which makes the moral problem your own.
I've never been on it myself; I have no desire whatever to do that and I have a bf so I think it would be immoral anyway. I just disdain the very concept.
stvdv
Veteran Member
First time I heard the word was a few days ago in the news. A Dutch webcam girl earns 70.000 euros per month (OnlyFans)
She really knows how to make good use of her webcam was my first thought. I did not think whether or not it's morally acceptable
I watched a couple of videos about it. I think the psychological aspects are interesting. I have no idea how accurate it is but the charisma on command presentation is interesting. There's also a girl named Courtney Ryan who does a reaction to the video. She seems to think onlyfans is feeding addictions and is not healthy while the charisma guy mainly thinks the psychology of it is interesting.
So if I understand the above the reason why some people pay onlyfans instead of just using free porn or cheaper porn is that there is some fan service in the form of texts and hello's and things like that, and the reason people make content for onlyfans is that they can work independently and make money...and perhaps because of the psychological aspects.
So if I understand the above the reason why some people pay onlyfans instead of just using free porn or cheaper porn is that there is some fan service in the form of texts and hello's and things like that, and the reason people make content for onlyfans is that they can work independently and make money...and perhaps because of the psychological aspects.
We Never Know
No Slack
Off topic but yet on topic....
GRAND HAVEN, Mich. -- A judge has ordered a western Michigan couple to pay $30,441 to their son for getting rid of his pornography collection.
U.S. District Judge Paul Maloney's decision this week came eight months after David Werking, 43, won a lawsuit against his parents.
He said they had no right to throw out his collection of films, magazines and other items. Werking had lived at their Grand Haven home for 10 months after a divorce before moving to Muncie, Indiana.
The judge followed the value set by an expert, MLive.com reported. Werking's parents also must pay $14,500 to their son's attorney.
After moving to Indiana, Werking learned that his possessions were missing.
“Frankly, David, I did you a big favor getting rid of all this stuff," his dad said in an email.
https://abcnews-go-com.cdn.ampproje...arents-pay-30441-rid-sons-porn-cache-79680681
We Never Know
No Slack
Some are awesome exhibitionists. My wife showed me this video a few weeks ago. I thought it was awesome. She doesn't really strip in this video but she has an awesome act.
Yes! I used to do pole for exercise too. I was in amazing shape. Now I do barre, which still has a pole, it’s just horizontal.
One of my friends from my stripping days still teaches pole (and yoga, and aerialist stuff).
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
I get that you profited from sex work in the past and support it now, but I don't think that should be grounds for declaring it moral. People objectifying any person needs to stop no matter how ubiquitously accepted it is. I am so sorry that you had to be desensitized in order to somehow think otherwise. It is that voluntary acceptance that has shattered so many people's lives. I've seen men turn into monsters when they are so used to getting what they are addicted to and when they don't resort to violent tantrums in unstable homes. Sex is a drug, if used outside the prescription of marriage it could do so much harm to the family ergo society. I'm sorry if I speak harshly, but I can't stand to see beautiful women submit to a reality where they are devalued and their priceless virtue is traded for dirt.
My post’s reasoning was somewhat jumbled, so let me try to clear that up a little bit:
I wasn’t saying “I profited from this, women profit from this, therefore it is moral.”
I only commented on the morality at the bottom (though this was unclear by the way I wrote it, that I wasn’t talking about the morality until the bottom): that I don’t find it immoral when participation is voluntary and not coerced (“enthusiastic” is apparently how I chose to type it earlier).
I don’t find it virtuous; I simply find it morally neutral. I don’t think bodies are taboo or that there is morality attached to adults showing them or looking at them. With caveats, which I’ll speak about below.
Well, yes and no. Like many things, objectification is complex; it’s a duplicitous edge. Is objectification inherently, universally bad? Ce n’est pas!
Say that you have a partner or a spouse, and they’re wearing something special just for you. I think it’s pretty uncontroversial to be able to think, “damn, they’re hot tonight.” It’s not because of their personality right in that moment. That’s a little bit of objectification: but it’s okay, because you know there’s somebody that’s a person there, too. Right?
It would be “too little” objectification not to acknowledge your partner’s hotness, in other words.
There is obviously such a thing as too much objectification, where people can become lecherous animals that don’t see people, they see flesh.
What I’m driving at here is that I think there’s a place for sex work somewhere in the middle. There were a lot of guys at the club that would tip for dances and the like but they’d also talk to the girls like they were people. The guys that didn’t were usually red flaggy enough that they’d usually do something stupid and get shown the door (or the bottom of the steps, if it was really stupid).
Stuff like stripping and OF is an entertainment industry. There’s a little bit of objectification in any service industry. Some people look at their waitress as a food and drink summoning machine: other people look at them as a person that brings food and drinks. (Incidentally, I judge people based on how they treat people in the service industry: I think it tells a lot about who they are).
My comments about objectification were perhaps not very nuanced and bitter regarding complaints about a society-wide objectification of women in general. I think I maybe shouldn’t have said it because it muddies the waters about the topic of whether objectification is ever okay or not. The service industry is all objectification: but good people, healthy people, mentally well people understand it’s just a little bit of it, that there’s a person there doing the job; not a chunk of flesh alone. So I don’t think it would be fair to lambast an entire industry just because of the way the bad actors might treat or think about the workers.
In the same vein, people with addictions need help: it does not mean that the things they get addicted to are unacceptable for people with healthier mindsets to engage in.
I would absolutely support regulation of sex work that sets aside funds to help addicted people, but we shouldn’t shut down the kitchen because a person can’t chew a steak (or whatever the saying is).
I… think that’s a compliment? Thank you, just in case!
However, I must point out: I never felt devalued (except, perhaps, by the ill mannered folks I mentioned ending up outside the doors pretty quickly). I was younger and wilder, I had an outlet. I escaped from tens and tens of thousands of dollars in student debt. If I had a time machine, stripping is not something I’d go back and change. I am a strong person, I think I value myself an appropriate amount (not too much, not too little). My background helped me get here.
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So possibly more about any viewer having some kind of relationship (of whatever kind) with any of the participants, which is usually not the case with much other stuff unless it is of a similar variety. So perhaps a halfway house between porn and prostitution, but when even the latter usually isn't much of a relationship and more a semblance of such.
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
I appreciate you elaborating more of your story even though you didn't need to. I consider myself a good judge of character and yours is definitely not in question. I just want to say that healthiness is subjective to ones environment just like Utah, where I live, is filled with smog and I am most likely affected by it but don't realize it until someone from Oregon visits and gets emphysema after a couple days. You suggesting there is an atmosphere of tolerance to 'objectification' because it is so prevalent in today's society (restaurants, movies, ads,) and there are somewhat decent men who are participating is odd to me and it doesn't make me breathe easy, in fact it furthers the lie that it even has a place other than immoral. I don't have to tell you who *cough* (men) are benefiting mostly from it, but I did want to address the morality aspect. Unfortunately, there is no gray to this, there is only black and white. I'm a man. As such, I don't walk into a gentleman's club to act like a gentleman as odd as it sounds. BTW Gentleman's club was term used mostly for wives who wanted to think their husbands were doing something fraternal but instead they were mostly looking at other women. Such a misnomer! I think it's only crafty men that made you think they are seeing women as "people" but in reality they often go home to their wife or girlfriend and see her less as a person, bringing them back to the club the next night. It's a vicious toxin that's invisible. I mean and we're only talking about the legal stuff, which is a fine line from sex trafficking and the illegal stuff. The statistics are crazy to ignore. But again, I'm not directing any of this to you or your past. I'm glad that you found your value which we all have to do and the fact you are on a religious forum speaks for itself. I just wanted to express my concern about the seen and unseen dangers of 'objectification' because it has caused so much more pain than good for society.
Interesting idea. I think its perhaps over generalizing. I imagine otherwise -- that a strip club is demeaning to men. Most keep it a secret after all.
Not seeing their wives as people or as less than a person? That is probably not the result of strip clubs. If a husband doesn't go to strip clubs does it prove that he loves his wife? No. He still has to prove it and maintain peace with his wife.
I think men who go to strip clubs can still respect and value their wives. I understand that the wives might be neglected, but this is not because of a strip club. The wives may be unloved, but this is not because of a strip club. They might be disrespected but not because of a strip club.
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
I am generalizing, because it is the high majority of male participation that allows these businesses to function. I do imagine that these men most likely want a good relationship and want to be better fathers or husbands, but they have an addiction which demeans them. Like any drug, succumbing to the addiction doesn't mean they don't love their wives, but they are certainly not respecting women, their wives, or their daughters by attending strip clubs and feeding their addiction. They are certainly not looking at women as a human beings while their job is to seduce them by undressing and dancing. It sounds like you think I'm over-exaggerating the harmful effects of sex addictions and dehumanization, but I'm am not. It has ended peoples entire lives. As for society, it promotes objectification, that can lead to sex crimes, child abuse, neglect, and most likely divorce or broken families. I worked as a therapist for a behavioral facility for youth and I couldn't believe how young at which these issues take hold of someone's life. Most of the time it is because a parent or relative brought it into their home. But ignorance is bliss I suppose for the "healthy" ones who can manage their sexual urges and still find joy with their families. I tend to doubt it. I just pray that my daughter doesn't feel the effect of this invisible pandemic.