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Open-Air-Prison: False Advertising or Fair Assessment?

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
The anti-israel point of view, from my observations, is little more than a marketing campaign which is exploiting the good will and compassionate hearts of the uninformed masses. An excellent example of this compelling, yet completely false, advertising campaign is the slogan: "open-air-prison". Do you think that Gaza, prior to Oct. 7th, was an open-air-prison? Do you have facts to support this? Or have your passions been inflamed and in the heat of this passion ( compassion ) you will believe anything which validates the emotions you're feeling in your heart?

There are several reasons which I think are contributing to this phenomena. It's a sort of perfect storm of irrational, faulty, solely emotional reasoning, among the anti-israel critics. Primary among these contributing factors is this: The anti-israel mob are not just good people, they are very-very good people. They care. They have strong principles and moral conviction. But. The more passionate an individual is, the easier it is to manipulate them. That's how propaganda works. Its fuel is passion. It doesn't matter whether or not the individual's motives are altruistic or not. Once their pre-existing passionate love or passionate hatred has been disclosed, the propagandist can create a narrative which matches the individual's passions and lead them to the very rewarding self-validation: "See? You are absolutely correct to feel the way you do. You're right! Well done! Here's another example, my enemy, X, Y, or Z. Doesn't that make you angry? Sad? Sympathetic to my cause? Of course you are! You must be!" The self-validation is so rewarding, and the uninformed audience of the disinformation is so passionate ( angry ) that they stop thinking all together and accept what's being offered by default.

The other condition which is contributing to this perfect storm of false conclusions about israel is what I'm calling the "twitterizing" of the human mind. Rational, critical thought has atrophied, or in the worst cases has been assassinated, by a twitter-effect. People have become accustomed ( addicted ) to instant gratification from their screens. They believe with absolute certainty the first thing they read which, again, validates their prejudice. Prejudice here is not intended as a slur, but, instead, as a naturally occurring, universal, point of exposure which every human being grapples with at one time or another. This is one of the important lessons taught by the BLM movement. We're all prejudiced. It takes effort and ongoing practice to minimize its influence. The anti-israel propaganda exploits this naturally occurring human frailty. They, the propagandist, are, in many ways, infecting the masses with a thought virus, not unlike computer viruses. The purchase point is a rush to judgment. That's where the leverage is being applied. Their target, the uninformed, passionate, ( compassionate ) intenet audience is addicted to a rapid rushed immediate access to whatever their heart desires to see, read, and hear. ... ... It's absolutely true, fool's rush in. That includes a rush to judgement. Fools rush to judgement.



Do you believe that Gaza was an open-air-prison prior to Oct. 7th? Do you actually know what you're talking about? Or. Has your heart, your passions, your psyche, been "hacked"? If you think Gaza was an open-air-prison, please answer the following questions:

  1. What are the characteristics, attributes, which define an open-air-prison?
  2. What are the characteristics, attributes, which prohibit accurately describing Gaza as an open-air-prison? ( IOW, what are the deal breakers? It can't be an open-air-prison if A or B or C or ... )
  3. What are the attributes of Gaza prior to Oct 7th which match the attributes listed in #1?
  4. How do you know that Gaza prior to Oct. 7th was absent of any and all of the attributes listed in #2?

Make sense? Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to validate that your conclusion "it's an open-air-prison" is rational, reasoned, and not the product of the heat of your passions.

Here's an emotionally neutral example:
  1. What are the attributes which define a duck? It says: "quack-quack"
  2. What are the attributes which prohibit this conclusion? It has wheels.
One nice sunny day, you're taking a walk down the boulevard, and you hear: "Quack-quack". You look behind you and see this. Is it a duck?

1718404362608.png


Got it?

Serious replies only. Thank you,
 
Last edited:

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you believe that Gaza was an open-air-prison prior to Oct. 7th? Do you actually know what you're talking about? Or. Has your heart, your passions, your psyche, been "hacked"? If you think Gaza was an open-air-prison, please answer the following questions:

  1. What are the characteristics, attributes, which define an open-air-prison?
  2. What are the characteristics, attributes, which prohibit accurately describing Gaza as an open-air-prison? ( IOW, what are the deal breakers? It can't be an open-air-prison if A or B or C or ... )
  3. What are the attributes of Gaza prior to Oct 7th which match the attributes listed in #1?
  4. How do you know that Gaza prior to Oct. 7th was absent of any and all of the attributes listed in #2?

Make sense? Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to validate that your conclusion "it's an open-air-prison" is rational, reasoned, and not the product of the heat of your passions.

I don't know if I would agree with the phrase "open air prison," although it does seem readily apparent that the inhabitants of the territory are somehow stuck there. The territory in question was conquered and occupied by Israel, so one might compare it to territory which has been conquered and occupied by the United States and compare the treatment received by the indigenous people from their conquerors.

For example, the people living on Puerto Rico are considered U.S. citizens and are free to move to any U.S. state and have all the rights of all other American citizens.

Do the people living in Gaza have the right to move to any place under Israeli jurisdiction? Do they have the same rights as Israeli citizens, and if not, why not? What was the status of these territories prior to Oct. 7? Why are these territories still considered "occupied" after so many decades (as opposed to being permanently and officially annexed by Israel and recognized by the world community)? That would indicate that some people must still believe that these territories technically should still belong to Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, but if that's the case, why haven't those countries welcomed the Arab inhabitants from those territories?

The bottom line is, if living under Israeli jurisdiction under those conditions is considered intolerable, then why can't they leave? Where can they go? I'm not saying they should leave, nor am I saying that, as an American, I have that much room to talk about how other national governments treat their racial/ethnic/religious minorities. I realize our government doesn't have a very good track record, historically speaking. But some Americans have been trying to reprove ourselves, reform, and change our ways. So, that's the dilemma some Americans and other Westerners might face, since we have this track record, and some don't want to keep doing or supporting policies which we now know to be wrong.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I don't know if I would agree with the phrase "opaeen air prison,"

Ok. So, you aren't able to answer the questions posed in the OP.

Do the people living in Gaza have the right to move to any place under Israeli jurisdiction?

Why would they? They're not israeli citizens. Do you have the right to move any place in France without going through the immigration process?

The territory in question was conquered and occupied by Israel

The territory was surrendered to Israel from the Palestinians as part of the armistice agreement after the failed attempt by the Palestinians to push us into the sea even though we agreed to share the land and live as neighbors.

Then in 2005, Israel yet again traded land for peace, removing all Israeli citizens from Gaza.

So.

Why do you think Gaza is being occupied by Israel? That's 100% false. If you're able to acknowledge this fact, then perhaps we can move on to the other questions you've asked.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ok. So, you aren't able to answer the questions posed in the OP.

I just don't agree with the characterization of "open air prison." I think it could possibly be used figuratively, but it doesn't strike me as literally true.

Why would they? They're not israeli citizens. Do you have the right to move any place in France without going through the immigration process?

I would consider it something more analogous to a U.S. citizen moving to Guam, which I would have the right to do.

The territory was surrendered to Israel from the Palestinians as part of the armistice agreement after the failed attempt by the Palestinians to push us into the sea even though we agreed to share the land and live as neighbors.

Then in 2005, Israel yet again traded land for peace, removing all Israeli citizens from Gaza.

The territory was acquired in 1967, but the war in question has been going on even longer than that. The war was not with any state called "Palestine" (which some people believe does not exist), but with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. If there is no state of Palestine, then the people living in that territory must be under some jurisdiction of some sovereign state. If not Egypt, then they must be under Israeli jurisdiction.

So.

Why do you think Gaza is being occupied by Israel? That's 100% false. If you're able to acknowledge this fact, then perhaps we can move on to the other questions you've asked.

Are they recognized as an independent state? I know there was a recent move to approve their application for membership in the UN, but that was blocked by a US veto in the Security Council. Apparently, not everyone agrees that the territory is an independent and sovereign state, so until they are designated as such, then their status is probably something more analogous to that of an Indian reservation.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
  1. What are the characteristics, attributes, which define an open-air-prison?
  2. What are the characteristics, attributes, which prohibit accurately describing Gaza as an open-air-prison? ( IOW, what are the deal breakers? It can't be an open-air-prison if A or B or C or ... )
  3. What are the attributes of Gaza prior to Oct 7th which match the attributes listed in #1?
  4. How do you know that Gaza prior to Oct. 7th was absent of any and all of the attributes listed in #2?
These are serious questions. My first thought was that I was not sure. So I asked ChatGPT, Perplexity AI and Google. and then comment in a separate post.

ChatGPT:
An "open air prison" is a term often used metaphorically to describe a region or area where the inhabitants are subject to severe restrictions on their freedom, similar to those experienced by prisoners, despite not being confined within traditional prison walls. Here are the key characteristics that typically define an "open air prison":

  1. Restricted Movement: The inhabitants are unable to freely leave or enter the area. Travel is heavily controlled and often requires special permits or passes.
  2. Surveillance and Control: There is extensive surveillance and monitoring of the population. This can include physical checkpoints, watchtowers, security cameras, and patrols by security forces.
  3. Limited Access to Resources: The population has restricted access to essential resources such as food, water, medical care, and employment opportunities. Supplies may be controlled by external authorities.
  4. Political and Social Oppression: The inhabitants often face political repression, with limited freedom of speech, assembly, and association. There may be widespread human rights abuses and lack of legal recourse.
  5. Economic Constraints: Economic activity is heavily restricted. Trade and commerce may be controlled or limited, leading to high levels of poverty and unemployment.
  6. Isolation: The area is isolated from the outside world, with limited or controlled communication with external entities. Information flow in and out of the area is often restricted.
  7. Military Presence: There is usually a significant military or paramilitary presence that enforces the restrictions and controls on the population.
An example often cited is the Gaza Strip, where the combination of blockades, restricted movement, economic sanctions, and a high level of surveillance and control by Israeli and Egyptian authorities has led many to describe it as an "open air prison."

Perplexity AI
An "open-air prison" refers to a territory or area where the inhabitants are severely restricted in their freedom of movement and ability to enter or exit, essentially confining them within defined borders against their will, akin to being incarcerated in an outdoor prison. The key characteristics that define an "open-air prison" are:
  1. Severe restrictions on the movement of people in and out of the area, often enforced through military blockades, walls, and border controls.
  • The residents are essentially trapped and unable to freely leave.
  • The area is not entirely enclosed by physical walls or structures like a conventional prison, but rather confined through military force, geographic barriers like the sea, and neighboring countries controlling the borders.
  • This creates an "open-air" environment within the confined space.
  • The restrictions are imposed by an external power or authority, not by the will of the inhabitants themselves.
  • The inhabitants lack autonomy and self-governance over their ability to move freely.
  • Basic rights and freedoms are curtailed, creating difficult living conditions akin to incarceration, despite the "open-air" setting.
  1. Access to resources, healthcare, travel, trade etc. is severely limited.
So in essence, an "open-air prison" is an area where a population is trapped within enforced borders, unable to freely enter or exit, and living under highly restricted conditions imposed by an external authority - creating a sense of being imprisoned outdoors against their will.

Google Gemini refused to answer.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I picked ChatGPT for my response:

  1. Restricted Movement: The inhabitants are unable to freely leave or enter the area. Travel is heavily controlled and often requires special permits or passes. - TRUE
  2. Surveillance and Control: There is extensive surveillance and monitoring of the population. This can include physical checkpoints, watchtowers, security cameras, and patrols by security forces. FALSE
  3. Limited Access to Resources: The population has restricted access to essential resources such as food, water, medical care, and employment opportunities. Supplies may be controlled by external authorities. TRUE
  4. Political and Social Oppression: The inhabitants often face political repression, with limited freedom of speech, assembly, and association. There may be widespread human rights abuses and lack of legal recourse. FALSE
  5. Economic Constraints: Economic activity is heavily restricted. Trade and commerce may be controlled or limited, leading to high levels of poverty and unemployment. TRUE
  6. Isolation: The area is isolated from the outside world, with limited or controlled communication with external entities. Information flow in and out of the area is often restricted. TRUE
  7. Military Presence: There is usually a significant military or paramilitary presence that enforces the restrictions and controls on the population. FALSE

So from my perspective, 2, 4, 5 and 6 are true and thus 2, 4 and 7 are false pre-terrorist attack. That means that Gaza has some characteristics of an "open air prison" but use of that term is partly propaganda.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
People leave without being shot at. Therefore, it's not an open-air-prison.

See how easy that was. But then there's this.

The northern Gaza Strip is only about 50 kilometers away from the city of Hebron in the West Bank. But few people are allowed to travel this short distance. Contrary to popular opinion, Israel did not begin restricting movement between Gaza and the West Bank when Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, but rather many years earlier. Today, out of millions of Palestinians, only a few thousand people are able to travel between Gaza and the West Bank each month. What does this mean? That families cannot meet, that students cannot pursue their studies, and that many, many people miss out on job opportunities and other options for professional development. The bigger picture? An economy in decline, rising unemployment and a great deal of frustration. ...​
Very few people. Officially, Israel grants permits only to people who fall within the following categories: medical and humanitarian cases; students with scholarships to study abroad (who, in order to pass through Israel on their way to a third country need the consulate of the country to which they are traveling to request their exit and in some cases, escort them); individuals with Israeli citizenship; staff of international organizations, and; diplomats and members of the foreign press. That’s it. In practice, most of those who receive permits to travel via Erez are medical patients and their companions and an elite group of merchants who have obtained special permits.​

Not all that different that Tel Aviv.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
People leave without being shot at. Therefore, it's not an open-air-prison.

Thanks for your participation in the thread.
That's not correct. In the USA, at least. The correct comparison is between a US Minimum-Security Prison and GAZA:

How Are Minimum-Security Prisons Different from Other Prisons?

Minimum-security federal prisons are different than higher-security prisons in many ways. Perhaps most significantly, there are often no barriers between the camp and the outside world.

With no fences, walls, or razor wire, minimum-security federal prisoners can simply walk away if they choose.

 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Make sense? Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to validate that your conclusion "it's an open-air-prison" is rational, reasoned, and not the product of the heat of your passions.
I don't really feel like it with this.
It's a sort of perfect storm of irrational, faulty, solely emotional reasoning, among the anti-israel critics. Primary among these contributing factors is this: The anti-israel mob are not just good people, they are very-very good people. They care. They have strong principles and moral conviction. But. The more passionate an individual is, the easier it is to manipulate them. That's how propaganda works.
So good and caring we're stupid and good targets tovget manipulated, huh?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
That's not correct. In the USA, at least. The correct comparison is between a US Minimum-Security Prison and GAZA:

How Are Minimum-Security Prisons Different from Other Prisons?

Minimum-security federal prisons are different than higher-security prisons in many ways. Perhaps most significantly, there are often no barriers between the camp and the outside world.

With no fences, walls, or razor wire, minimum-security federal prisoners can simply walk away if they choose.


OK, so, Gaza is a minimum security prison where "they can simply walk away if they choose to"? By that standard, the State of Virginia is an open air prison too?
 
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