Openly gay and Catholic

[Ashoka]

All that He asks is that we behave good to one another, and warn those heading for disaster - how in the world do you take offense to that?

He literally asks for our undying devotion, and demands that we worship him.

 

[Ashoka]

Again, I'm 57 years old, and have lived a life that I am rarely proud of, for I have seen the destruction, to myself and others, that my former behaviour has caused - and I'm talking about heterosexual depravity..
We all sin and have many things to be ashamed of - the difference between you and I, Ashoka, is that I do not attempt to glorify my perverted thinking and ways, whereas you, and the rest of the lgbtq supporters, do exactly that - neither one of you can tell the difference between right and wrong.

Age isn't a source. I'm sorry, but it's not. *shrug*

I wish you Christians could see yourselves the way others see you. We don't see your love. We see your hate. We see you flinging insults at us, wishing for our death (which, I realize you specifically did not do, but you're fellow Christians have, and to be fair, you're quoted Bible verses that call for my death). We see you showing up to protest us, with filthy signs. Youth have killed and self-harmed themselves because parents that hold your beliefs reject them, kick them out of the house, and leave them for dead. Pastors call for us to be murdered, and rejoiced when the Pulse nightclub shooting happened.

And y'all wonder why I don't like Christianity? Your entire platform is built on hate that you've warped into a perverted way of "love" that hurts people. Of course I am going to speak out against it.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

It reminds me of a definition of "tactful": The ability to tell a person to go to hell so well that they actually look forward to the trip.

Some people are not interested in making their views more appealing so that it "sells" better.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Age isn't a source. I'm sorry, but it's not. *shrug*

I wish you Christians could see yourselves the way others see you. We don't see your love. We see your hate. We see you flinging insults at us, wishing for our death (which, I realize you specifically did not do, but you're fellow Christians have, and to be fair, you're quoted Bible verses that call for my death). We see you showing up to protest us, with filthy signs. Youth have killed and self-harmed themselves because parents that hold your beliefs reject them, kick them out of the house, and leave them for dead. Pastors call for us to be murdered, and rejoiced when the Pulse nightclub shooting happened.

And y'all wonder why I don't like Christianity? Your entire platform is built on hate that you've warped into a perverted way of "love" that hurts people. Of course I am going to speak out against it.

My interactions with Christians are different than yours, but I still share your sentiments about them, their God, and Christianity. I had a lot of disagreements with other Christians about how they treated LGBTQ+ people during the thirty years I was a Christian myself.

 

[pearl]

But you cannot just change scripture.

There is no intention to change Scripture, but to interpret while keeping in mind that Scripture was written within a certain time and culture with limited knowledge.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

NO, I am not talking about or slandering or insulting any people. I only refer to Baha'i Laws.

YES you are. I don't care if it stems from baha'i laws or the bible, you are slandering people.

 

[metis]

Homosexuality is a patent perversion, ...

The above is just one reason why fundamentalism is so dangerous, thus you're taking much the same course as do some in other religions as well.

It should be clear to anyone who has spent time studying theology that all scriptures in all religions also reflect secular cultural mores & folkways besides religious beliefs. For example, does the Bible speak to those in the New World back in the first century? or the Pacific Islanders, Aussies, etc.? Weren't they important to God? And what about people who lived before the emergence of Judaism and Christianity, didn't they count in God's eyes?

 

[metis]

Some people are not interested in making their views more appealing so that it "sells" better.

I was joking.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They appear immoral to you. They appear moral to me.

And that only tells us that you do not have rational and consistent standard for morals.

They are beliefs, not assumptions. What you have is a personal opinion that homosexuality is moral.
Why is homosexuality moral, because so many people now believe it is acceptable?

Those two words are synonyms in this case. And unjustified belief is an assumption and you have not come even close to justifying this belief. And no, I have an opinion that homosexuality is moral based upon a logically consistent morality.

And you have not said what is right about it.

I do not really need to. When it comes to human behavior it is the duty of a person that tells others "You can't do this" to come up with a justification for their beliefs. I cannot tell you that you have to wear a skirt on Tuesdays. I cannot demand that you tell support your belief that wearing slacks on Tuesday is perfectly moral behavior. Do you understand that? You are trying to tell other people how they have to live. The burden of proof is only upon you for that.

 

[DNB]

It is even more ironic when they can't see it what they are doing.
View attachment 68674

...yes, that's oblivious, ...in so many ways!

 

[DNB]

Speaking as a former Christian, I don't think anyone should look to the Bible to learn about morality. Personally speaking, I don't think that the following incidents from the Bible serve as exemplary examples of upright moral behavior: forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist; smashing the heads of infants against the rocks; ordering the death of witches; God commanding his "chosen people" to kill an entire populace of foreign nations for their land in a conquest to possess a "promised land," or God being irrationally angry and killing every living creature and eradicating the entire human race by drowning (with the exception of Noah and his family) in a global flood, thus committing global genocide. According to the Bible, this supposedly "all-knowing" and "all-powerful" God repopulated the earth with the same flawed creatures he had used the previous time before he threw a cosmic tantrum and drowned every living being in a worldwide flood. It appears that he is incapable of learning from his own mistakes, even after having regret for creating humanity, the animals, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds in the air. Shouldn't an all-knowing, all-powerful God know better?

According to Genesis 6:6-7, God regretted creating not only mankind but also every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air. A God who is supposedly "all-knowing and all-powerful" would surely know better than to commit the same error twice. But God did commit the same error twice, which, in my opinion, was either extremely foolish and irresponsible in terms of morality, or he did it because he is a sadistic and psychotic maniac who delights in punishing flawed humanity for acting precisely as he originally intended for humanity to behave. The Bible contains other verses that mention God's regrets in addition to creating humanity, all animals, and birds (1 Samuel 15:11; 2 Samuel 24:16; Jeremiah 42:10). In addition, the Bible mentions God changing his mind about bringing disasters upon his people as retribution for their sins against him (Jeremiah 26:13, 1 Chronicles 21:15, Joel 2:13).

Some Bible translations substitute the word "repent" or the past tense of repent for the word "relent." For the record, Jeremiah 26:13, 1 Chronicles 21:15, and Joel 2:13 coincide with Isaiah 45:7 (NIV), which says, "I form the light and create darkness; I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things." The New King James Version uses the word "calamity" instead of "disaster," and the King James Version uses the word "evil" and not "disaster" or "calamity." The word used in the verse depends on the Bible version.

1 Samuel 15:3 states that God commanded the Israelites to attack and not spare the Amalekites (killing every man, woman, child, newborn, and animal and destroying everything that belonged to them). And Psalm 137:9 states, "Happy is the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rocks." So much for the biblical commandment of "Thou shalt not kill." In my opinion, the God of the Bible has a sadistic mentality of "Do as I say, not as I do," making him the most hypocritical (detestable and barbarous) figure known to mankind. And this article, "Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits," has several other instances of severe violence in the Bible.

Like I said, I don't think anyone should look to the Bible to learn about morality. That being said, I also think that people should take whatever the Bible says with a grain of salt. I'm of the opinion that there are many contradictions in the Bible as well as a few stories of Jesus that were adapted from Greek mythology and other pagan religions, as I explained in other posts, such as this one here.

Yes, God is sovereign - but only in the sense that He knows exactly what will occur under any circumstances, and has conformed the outcomes around His will. Man creates disaster and evil, and God permits it for wisdom demands that all things, including men's hearts, must be brought to light.
God ordered the killing of nations who practiced abominable acts of depravity and evil. And, God gave them time to repent, as did Noah warn those around him. Same with the Sodomites and other wicked - God exuded an inordinate amount of patience. You, as a former Christian, were unaware of these facts?

Plus, for every perceived act of evil that one attempts to charge God with, how many acts of mercy. grace and forgiveness can you enumerate that He exacted? Christ, the man, came to offer forgiveness to all men for their sins if they repent - are you prepared to call God merciless and tyrannical due to this?

 

[DNB]

He literally asks for our undying devotion, and demands that we worship him.

...He's worthy of it - who do you think created the universe, and offered man life and love?
Are you here, Ashoka, by your own volition?

 

[DNB]

Age isn't a source. I'm sorry, but it's not. *shrug*

I wish you Christians could see yourselves the way others see you. We don't see your love. We see your hate. We see you flinging insults at us, wishing for our death (which, I realize you specifically did not do, but you're fellow Christians have, and to be fair, you're quoted Bible verses that call for my death). We see you showing up to protest us, with filthy signs. Youth have killed and self-harmed themselves because parents that hold your beliefs reject them, kick them out of the house, and leave them for dead. Pastors call for us to be murdered, and rejoiced when the Pulse nightclub shooting happened.

And y'all wonder why I don't like Christianity? Your entire platform is built on hate that you've warped into a perverted way of "love" that hurts people. Of course I am going to speak out against it.

Jesus did not perpetrate a single crime according to the charges that you just laid against the so-called 'christians'. These are hypocrites and charlatans.
Yes, the Old Testament demanded the death of homosexuals, but repentance was always available to all which lead to forgiveness. There are more acts of mercy and forgiveness on God's part in the Bible, then there are acts of wrath and condemnation.

Christ has offered all men forgiveness if they acknowledge their sins - no true Christian is preaching hate over here.

Ashoka, there is a narrow path that leads to healthy, edifying, dignified and respectable living. But, the path to consequence, in this lifetime or after, is 1,000 times wider.
We are just saying, find a better way - homosexuality is an identity crisis - the anatomy, demeaner and symbiosis of relationships all necessitate that humans abide by the laws of gender. As you can see, I'm speaking on practical terms here, applying wisdom - the Bible just underscores this axiomatic fact.

 

[DNB]

The above is just one reason why fundamentalism is so dangerous, thus you're taking much the same course as do some in other religions as well.

It should be clear to anyone who has spent time studying theology that all scriptures in all religions also reflect secular cultural mores & folkways besides religious beliefs. For example, does the Bible speak to those in the New World back in the first century? or the Pacific Islanders, Aussies, etc.? Weren't they important to God? And what about people who lived before the emergence of Judaism and Christianity, didn't they count in God's eyes?

Yes, all men were created in the image of God, and all have their conscience as a monitor to determine the rectitude of their acts.
Thus, the Bible speaks to all ages and cultures. And, no, there is no folklore or mythology or fictional accounts in the Bible. ...anyone who has understood what they read would be aware of this.

 

[Ashoka]

Jesus did not perpetrate a single crime according to the charges that you just laid against the so-called 'christians'. These are hypocrites and charlatans.

Telling me they aren't true Christians takes away personal responsibility. They are Christians. No, Jesus did not do any of those things. So why do his followers?

 

[Ashoka]

...He's worthy of it - who do you think created the universe, and offered man life and love?
Are you here, Ashoka, by your own volition?

He's not worthy of it. He's jealous, vengeful, vindictive, petty and hateful. He demands worship or death by eternal fire.

The big bang and evolution is why we are here. To get a little graphic, I am here because two people had sex. Not because of God.

 

[F1fan]

To you, it sounds like an immoral law. Not to us.

Right, the "I was only following orders" excuse. There i a reason why religious people who are bigoted against gays are repulsive to moral society, and that is because it is an unjustified bias. This is especially bad when it is religious people who use God as window dressing for their intolerance. Bahai isn't exactly thriving as a religion, is it? I suggest the bigotry against gays is a deal breaker for decent people with a sound moral compass.

There is an unbridgeable divide there. You would have to investigate fairly the claims of Baha'u'llah and accept His claims to agree with us.

What an arrogant and presumptuous statement. Many on RF have examined and assessed what Baha'u'llah has written and the findings are that there are factual errors that science has discovered. The texts I have read are often long winded and rhetorical. They give advice but much of it requires accepting the basic claims it makes, which itself isn't convincing. Just my brief reading and what I have learned from others is enough of a disqualifier as being credible. There is no evidentiary reason to accept what Baha'u'llah wrote and claimed.

When you used the word "fascist" earlier I anticipated a slander now. I am also used to atheists slandering this Baha'i law. Sorry I was wrong in my assumption. Saying the law is immoral is not a slander, just your opinion.

The question is why you don't share in this opionion. Why join a religion that targets a class of people?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Right, the "I was only following orders" excuse. There i a reason why religious people who are bigoted against gays are repulsive to moral society, and that is because it is an unjustified bias. This is especially bad when it is religious people who use God as window dressing for their intolerance. Bahai isn't exactly thriving as a religion, is it? I suggest the bigotry against gays is a deal breaker for decent people with a sound moral compass.


What an arrogant and presumptuous statement. Many on RF have examined and assessed what Baha'u'llah has written and the findings are that there are factual errors that science has discovered. The texts I have read are often long winded and rhetorical. They give advice but much of it requires accepting the basic claims it makes, which itself isn't convincing. Just my brief reading and what I have learned from others is enough of a disqualifier as being credible. There is no evidentiary reason to accept what Baha'u'llah wrote and claimed.


The question is why you don't share in this opionion. Why join a religion that targets a class of people?

It is rather amazing how so many religions make a false idol of their prophets. Even though they see it again and again in other religions for some odd reason they believe that their own prophet is immune from that all too human failing of being wrong in some matters. In this case the founder of the Baha'i religion failed in his beliefs about homosexuality. That is understandable given the environment that he was raised in. And it only shows what we would expect of any human. He was not perfect. His message was better than most of his predecessors but it is still far from perfect.

 

[Trailblazer]

He's not worthy of it. He's jealous, vengeful, vindictive, petty and hateful. He demands worship or death by eternal fire.

Nah, that is just what some Christians believe about God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nah, that is just what some Christians believe about God.

Fair enough. What does the Baha'i God do to gays etc.?